To think “non-binary” is becoming a fashion statement for some people rather than a true identity?

[ByPoliteExpert]

Not saying it’s not real but the aestheticisation of it is creeping in.

No they don’t want to I’m sure. That’s part of what is so sad about it. But trans activism, including the invention of the non binary identity, does undermine women’s rights, ultimately.

And those non binary women you know are still biological women - you must know this?

Oh yes I forgot about gender bending,

Yes but it’s more than fashion. It’s tribal, like being a goth. It’s to assert your political opinion too.

I thought we weee talking about stupid things are young relatives believed. I mean you’d have to be a bit arrogant to suggest you were so special and different because you didn’t “ fit gender norms”. That suggests everyone else does, therefore as women are oppressed by gender norms, that they are complicit in their own oppression by not also identifying out of them. At least my niece has the excuse she was six.

Yes I think it is a movement/tribe sort of thing.

A look is something external - like fashion, styling, or how someone presents themselves. A gender identity is internal - it’s how someone understands themselves in terms of gender, regardless of appearance.

It isn't a fashion statement, it is an attention seeking statement.

I don’t really know why you must be so condescending but yes, I do believe in biology. But I also believe that people are free to do what they need to do in order to feel themselves and be happy, and should not be penalised or witch hunted for this, as long as no laws are being broken.

They’re not being witch hunted. They’re being laughed at.

Oh yes. As long as they are not demanding others participate. It’s ok to be “non binary”, it’s not ok to get upset when no one else will reinforce this by “using your pronouns”.

Surely it’s a feeling? I feel like I am more feminine than masculine or or neither or both. It’s ok to have feelings and it’s ok for those feelings to influence how you dress/look/ present yourself affect who you want to be with. Issues arise when people’s feelings impact on women’s safety/identity. Then it becomes a issue.

I was responded to the OP and to the general responses about Non-binary identity being for attention etc.

You responded to me about your niece once identifying as a cat. As you had quoted my post I assumed you wanted a response from me, but there wasn't enough information for me to reply, so I acknowledged your post with "ok". You've now expanded you believe it was a discussion on stupid things young relatives have believed

I don't consider my DC identifying as non-binary to be a stupid belief, they're happily, despite the majority opinion on MN they don't go around making constant demands/drawing attention to themselves. They understand they'll sometimes get called by their old name and pronouns and are fine with that.

@TY78910 My apologies if I sounded condescending, I didn’t mean to. I feel very strongly about women’s rights and the toxic impact trans activism has on women.

Totally, and so do I. I don’t like extremism either end, I think there is a peaceful middle where people can co-exist without demanding too much, and also not judging (or laughing as mentioned by someone else upthread) the other side.

I agree, it starts with a feeling or internal sense of self and people should be free to explore that. My post wasn’t about policing expression but about when that expression starts to feel more like a curated performance than a reflection of identity. Especially when it’s adopted in a trendy or aesthetic way that can dilute or overshadow what being non-binary actually means for many.

What is 'gender'?

Please tell me more about these gaps in biological reality.

I find that we are living in times where we seem to be expected to be tolerant - rightly so - of how people want to live their lives BUT that unless you fully support say for example trans people then you are a TERF. I am horrified at the language used by some of the trans community-especially biological males presenting as women. I am yet to really see much from biological females presenting as men in terms of vitriol.

I am also of an age where androgyny was a thing. I do worry that we are encouraging people to state they are non binary when it is simply a label not a biological fact.

In the work place as long as you do your job to the best of your ability your labels are of no concern to me unless of course you want to use them as a way to gain advantage in the name of diversity. Likewise vegetarian and vegan people - I have never met anyone and declared myself a carnivore nor put that statement in my social media bio.

If it is that it’s a trend, does it matter ? Is it more negative if more people are feeling that way? Is it that more people are comfortable expressing their feelings than previously? Or because it’s more common more people are identifying with it?

If you can wrap your head around a woman feeling "girly", "one of the girls", "womanly" or "tomboy", "one of the boys", "a ladette" - then you can wrap your head around a woman feeling "non-binary". If being a woman's woman is an identity, then so is being non-binary.

Identities are only confusing when they're non-traditional. But the idea of identifying with various aspects of gender is as old as the hills.

So like when people make one aspect of their personality the be all and end all of their existence? What is the difference between gender identity and personality apart from gender identity is performative?

Non binary generally means autistic women.

Gender, more broadly, is the set of rules, behaviours, and expectations that societies associate with being male or female - which is why it changes across cultures and eras.

thats wild

So someone non binary is just someone who does not conform to these gender norms in some way. So99.9% of people are non binary then?