To think all MNers hate men?

[Corriganscans]

I’m a lesbian so I don’t date men and I like women both to have relationships with and as a species! I’m a feminist and share some of the views on men that seem to be very prevalent on MN. I don’t hate men though. I actually feel a bit sorry for boys and young men today growing up in a world that is very critical of them (a view which I’ll probably get flamed for which’ll further prove my point!) I struggle to understand some of the clear contempt and, often what appears to be hatred of men from straight women on here. How do you date/fancy/fall in love with them if you have such negative views of them? Or is it just that every single woman with these views just happens to have one of the good ones? I doubt it. Isn’t it not that different to a misogynistic straight man who hates women but is happy to date them (thereby pretty much objectifying them for their own needs)??

My point is, you’re not actually seeing what IS, but what you want to be true.

Men exploit women.

those women who have free time have raced through ‘their’ jobs to free up space. The men just … have free time, for cycling, gym, whatever. A cock is a magic wand.

But why then do you believe its in the male gene or is it upbringing? Do we step back and allow it subconsciously? I do think the current breast feeding attitude is now pushing men away from doing childcare and many women are pushing men away ....
Men pushed out because it's easier to feed if you co sleep so he's in another room seems common. Women taking a years maternity leave (not saying I don't agree with it) leaves a year when many are not expecting men to step up at home. Rather than it be you've both had a hard day let's pull together now I'm home it seems many have turned into stepford wives feeling they have to do it all.
You absolutely have the right to expect equal work life balance at home.
We should be promoting it in our children but how many our encouraging them to do domestic duties like cooking from early teens? On mn we have mums fretting about packing their adults clothes and checking they have everything for holidays. Yet they are supposed to be capable adults with kids in a few years later.

So say no and take your free time from day one don't change it when you have a baby hand baby to him express and take a break.

YABU and you know you are for using the word ‘ALL’.

I don’t love or hate anyone. Ime, there are more men that have been polite to me than have been mean to me. Have some been imbeciles and have I felt unsafe, absolutely, doesn’t mean I hate them or that I can’t point out bad, hypocritical, and/or ignorant behaviour and the same goes for women.

I think MN is a place where many find they can be honest about how they feel

and there are too many men who are not particularly good people

and that is what is being expressed on here

if that was true, (and it isn't) it would only mean that men are more organised or more efficient.

Why would they magically have more time?

I don’t hate men per se - but I do think a lot of them ( this is not ‘all’ by any means) may in theory be ‘new men ‘ but when it comes down to basics beyond the first few years of ‘getting feet under the table’ act not much different to men in the 80s - be it doing as little domestically round the house as they can get away with , ‘their’ job or career takes priority when it comes to needing to take time off with kids or doctors etc , secretive porn, always having the last say etc, moaning or pestering about lack of sex regardless of feelings of why the wife/partner feels that way, - I think they can often make great friends and company , but far too many make shit partners and parents in a changing world.

This is nuts. Have you not observed or heard of power structures? You believe we all live according to our wishes?

Or - let’s agree that it’s on men to stop being exploitative or predatory?

yes... ?

I don't believe we are all stupid idiots living under the will of a sacred man who was born to make us slaves or miserable or both.

I hate when we are presented as born-victims, like we are too weak or stupid to be as independent or similar as men.

Again, it's not men the enemy, it's women who who think like that in my books.

I find that on MN women here absolutely love the smell of their own farts and find it absolutely hilarious.

However they absolutely despise it when their DH farts.

let's agree it's on both partners to make children with someone who is compatible and decide in advance of what you expect.

I enjoy looking at ones I find attractive but have no desire for any kind of communication with any particular men bar one who's been a wonderful friend to me. I have however in the past had a lot of experience of men but never found the compatibility that many seem to. I think I attract dysfunctional men and didn't have good role models growing up, therefore tended to gravitate towards unhealthy attachments! I wouldn't say I hate men but I think you have to be discerning with them.

Speak for yourself.

I mean, you must be, given that you are a mumsnetter, and you think all mumsnetters hate men.

I raised my friend's sons after she died.
They have children of their own now.
They have always understood that men are born with huge advantages and that society in general needs to pay more attention to the needs of leveling the playing field for women.

Yeah you’re right. I hate all men. Especially my sons. Wankers.

Women clearly aren't weak, stupid or dependent.

That said Andrew Tate and his ilk are popular with men and too many women suffer abuse, domestic violence and economic disadvantage because of the way society is structured.

It seems a bit like victim blaming to say that women who feel threatened, disadvantaged or less than are the enemy.

Ok, well good luck explaining the history of the world.

Power structures exist across all axes - sex, race, class.

Your assertion that those who are under rather than over should just try a bit harder, be a bit more you, is as ridiculous as it is offensive as it is embarrassng.

But if you want change you have to make change not just say it's not my fault therefore I must put up with it. The women of the 60s and 70s didn't just say oh men are horrible they acted. The suffregets acted. Stop doing it all day no, educated your kids to say no.
Things are so much better now than they were but it's like women have given up and are sliding backwards.
I do believe it's in most humans to walk over doormats unless the doormat gets up, that's why we have bullys at school ....and girls are just as bad as boys at being bullys.

There's a big difference between abuse and women's rights nobody is saying it's an abuse victims fault. But if your the one in a relationship doing everything practical and mentally to hold the family together you should ask yourself why did it happen are you just as conditioned to think it's your role in life? Are you helping reinforce the mold for your children?

Because most men are horrible users and really just use women for what they need, meanwhile impregnating them multiple times and then decide that they don’t like it anymore. Most men garbage, I’m sure there are a few good one in there but I haven’t found one. It’s all about their penis. That’s really all they care about.

That's the secret with anything in life, including men. Don't have any expectations and you won't be disappointed, and might actually be pleasantly surprised, every now and then.

In real life i do not think the women are wek or stupid and are fully functioning independent women who can manage to look after themselves whether single or in relationships and I would put myself in that group, I am married but I am fully functioning member of society who can look after myself

I do not think MN is like this most of the time, how many times are hormones, he said I had to not work, I desperately need man, he useless but I will stay anyway and if he leaves me I will go out and find myself another useless one, I need a baby daddy but then his services are no longer required as I have what I want, the double standards are rife, how many women only feel their worth is through a man and use them as a financial plan

There are some terrible men out there but there is always a long line of women desperate to be with them, bad men should change but all the protests in the world wont make it happen

How much thought do women give to men, instead of going enough is enough I just wont put up with it

Hating men is a luxury of an ordered society. Go to the Donbas and ask how many Ukrainian women hate their men.

Are you saying that there are our choices. either
1- an ordered society when men exploit injure & kill women
or
2- War and conflict with external forces to soak up male aggression.

Or maybe women are in the role of 'fluffers' keeping them in the fighting & conquering mode so that they are primed and battle ready- we are the target practice? And we should be proud to serve our nations in this way.
That is what you are saying? Women should be grateful that men are there to fight in wars, which (for the most part ) are started by other men.