To think all MNers hate men?

[Corriganscans]

I’m a lesbian so I don’t date men and I like women both to have relationships with and as a species! I’m a feminist and share some of the views on men that seem to be very prevalent on MN. I don’t hate men though. I actually feel a bit sorry for boys and young men today growing up in a world that is very critical of them (a view which I’ll probably get flamed for which’ll further prove my point!) I struggle to understand some of the clear contempt and, often what appears to be hatred of men from straight women on here. How do you date/fancy/fall in love with them if you have such negative views of them? Or is it just that every single woman with these views just happens to have one of the good ones? I doubt it. Isn’t it not that different to a misogynistic straight man who hates women but is happy to date them (thereby pretty much objectifying them for their own needs)??

You must know he is an outlier.

I don’t like men and I let my husband know about it loud and clear. He doesn’t get away with anything and my daughters are raised to know that it’s better single than in shit, selfish company. One of these generations will have to get it right and put a stop to their childish behaviour. Trying to get out of doing your share of work in a household and child rearing is childish. Not being a good partner and going out for hours to enjoy your hobby while your partner is at home ill with a small baby because it’s more fun is childish. Not controlling your emotions and creating havoc in the world with violence, greed, corruption and entitlement is also childish. Grow the fuck up.

Mine does too and we BOTH know he’s an outlier. And I do most of the emotional labour with childcare. The endless talking about friends and worries and dreams and everything. But he recognises that as effort. We both work full-time.

Sometimes I wander over, tell him I love him, give him a kiss or hug and he says, “is some bloke being a wanker in MN?” Yes DH, yes he is.

Why do you not expect ‘too much from him’? Bizarre comment.

But the standard for being 'normal lovely people' where men are concerned includes 'will allow a woman to do all the shitwork that makes living nice'.

Looked at through a similar lens that we might look at race, for example, that is not lovely.

It is certainly normal, though. I don't know a single man in my liberal-lefty circle who actually does his fair share of the shitwork. All of them have Really Good Reasons why that's the case, and usually it's:

I work in a normal graduate middle-class job that I take at a leisurely pace while adding lots of drama, so it looks like I work in a high stress/long hours environment.

The women who do his job will have motored through to be back to pick up from after-school club.

The other men who do his job will conspire to make it look like those women are sacking off, when they are actually they not only motoring through but also making it possible for their own exploitative man to stretch out his work to just long enough that they don't have to adult.

These are not, when you step back and force yourself to see things as a visitor from another planet would, 'normal lovely people'. They're shits.

In real life, lots of people are playing a part and know the risks of not doing so. Or they've convinced themselves not to look too closely at male behaviour, because it will bring trouble to their door.

@Corriganscans "Of course I don’t like all women but as a group they are not seen as negatively as men (for good reason imo)"

So you've basically answered your own question. You're saying that men are seen in a more negative light than women, for good reason in your opinion. That kind of defeats the whole object of your post doesn't it?

I love men, but I don't believe in keeping one at all cost.

I can also acknowledge that men do very bad things to everyone.

Must be easy to be funny when you’re unburdened by the everyday drudge of relentless housework, life admin and child rearing. Not to mention free from worrying about being bothered whilst going about your day to day activities and being paid as much as the next man for doing the same job (to name but a few).
I don’t hate men by any stretch but women, on the whole, are better.

I don't hate men. But, I will say, I have become so despondent and disappointed with them. It is really appalling to see - now that we have social media - how their entitlement plays out, how little they try to understand the lives of the women they live next to every day. How much harm they do to women and nobody gives a shit. I feel sorry for everyone who is harmed by patriarchy (that's most of us, men included) but I am utterly fed up with men's general lack of self-education on the subject.

I have good men in my life but their lack of imagination about how things are for women is kind of bleak. I also have not good men in my life, in that I was brought up with a lot of covert misogyny, and I only have ongoing contempt for them tbh.

This is spot on.

In real life, most women don't look at men like they're part of a different species and a danger to women, because MEN.

How many times will someone pip up on here "women don't realise how much men hate them"? Sorry but what?

It's not the usual nonsense "not all men", it's that a few individuals don't define a group. Some people love to see the men as "the enemy" and fancy themselves living in a dystopian Handmaid'Tale nightmare, in real life, it doesn't happen.

Some countries are backwards, but talking about the countries most posters come from? Nonsense.

I'm picturing man haters like this unhappy woman. Joe, being perfectly polite until she pulled a Karen by demanding he look in her in the eye, soon put her back in her box.

That’s truly something I’ve not seen on Mumsnet. I find posters are just as hard and often harsher on women who have been abusive or cheated or whatever, I genuinely don’t have that experience on here of there being bias, quite the opposite in fact.

I think I'd dislike them less if I was a lesbian.

Just thinking of how cringe men are when they want sex. And they want women. The way the sometimes act to try and attract us. It's like 'Bro, are you MAD?!'
I feel like they need us more than we need them. And some of them can't really handle it.

But I love some of them and it's not their fault they were born male. I'd fucking hate to be a bloke.

As with all ridiculous generalisation on here, YABU to say 'ALL'.

Of course we don't.

I acknowledge there are a fair few people on here who come across like that, but to conclude 'all MNers hate men' from those people is just ridiculous.

They do get very angry when you point out 'not all men' on any of their threads though

Don't be ridiculous, OP.

Talk about a sweeping generalisation 🙄

Most of us are in a relationship with one and many of us birthed sons.

Just a batshit statement to make.

there is an incredible amount of man-haters on MN that's true

I don't meet such anger and bitterness in real life - thank god

It’s batshit mostly as the op, a mner, is saying she doesn’t hate men whilst simultaneously asking if all mners hate men.

If you look at the data, and the anecdotal evidence on MN for eg, and the evidence of your own eyes about how many men you know who actually split the life load 50/50 and don’t get bored or offended when the woman stops massaging their ego because she has small humans who need that attention more, and you still think it’s ‘a few individuals’ - you are at idiot-levels of denial.

Men don’t have to be rapists or domestic abusers to abuse women. It’s in what they don’t do as much as what they do.

We’re all trained to not see it.

it's funny how it's always women who are actually abusive.
No man is ever calling me "an idiot" or at idiot-level of denial when I disagree with him 😂

don’t get bored or offended when the woman stops massaging their ego
someone is projecting big time.

Men don’t have to be rapists or domestic abusers to abuse women I don't know anyone who is being abused, and couples going away for the weekend seem to be sharing their free time fairly equally.

I do pity you for having such a sad view of the world. That's not my experience

It’s a massive sweeping generalisation to say everyone on MN hates men. A lot of the criticism of men on MN is perfectly valid. What I would say is that the same biting critical analysis is rarely applied in the same way to women, who can quite easily be truly awful.

I only hate the arseholes. Sadly there are quite a lot of them.

Wow....do you have a son,?

So why do so many women allow themselves to carry an unfair domestic share? Do we not empower our daughter's to say no I'm not doing it all? Does the current pressure to breast feed for asap keep us chained to the home and domestic duties because we feel the men are out at work and we don't value childcare duties enough? On here loads of mums say but I don't mind I'm home all day while he's working but when I go back he will need to step up.