AIBU to eat ice cream everyday and refuse to offer to DD

[olafandme]

Yesterday I picked 7 yo DD up from school. It was a hot day and unusually it’s just us 2, no DS. I cheerily suggest we stop and get an ice cream on the walk home. To which she shouts at me “NO! I HATE ICE CREAM” (she loves ice cream and and eats them often)
to this I said “or an ice lolly or a cold drink, something cool” she screams that I don’t know her at all because she HATES COLD THINGS and runs away from me dramatically. Proceeds to walk 5 steps behind me entire way home. I stop off and buy myself an ice cream just to prove a point.
This type of thing happens often. For example few days or so ago it was torrential rain and i brought her umbrella to pick up. She screamed at me in front of whole playground because she did not want it (I was holding it - folded down and was not trying to make her hold it). That’s just this week.
I have spoken to her calmly and length about, 1) not shouting at me and also 2) about seeing the intent behind what someone is doing. Asking yourself is the person trying to do something nice or something nasty - if it’s nice try to recognise that and something along the lines of “no thank you” is what you say.
I’d say we have this talk once a week. anyway.
The ice cream incident must have tipped me over the edge. Because talking isn’t getting through to her. My plan is to not offer her ice cream for the time being at least. Anytime we have ice cream / ice lolly, she will not be having one. I think I could do a year or the summer at least. Maybe I’d reconsider after a change in behaviour and a sincere apology.
I tried this last night (same day as the incident) and did not offer her one and made one for everyone else. Despite me asking him not to - DH offered her one.
am i a psycho for thinking like this?
AIBU?

Oh and to answer your question, withholding ice cream etc for year would be cruel. I don't have kids but thought that at that age punishments should be short, immediately after the incident and where possible directly related to the incident (which in this case is not ice cream refusal, it's the screaming at you)

I can't tell if this is a jokey post or you're being serious but in case it's serious - you're taking her too literally, and your approach is unlikely to work because it sounds like what she's saying isn't a literal expression of her preferences but more of an emotional outburst which tells you she's tired/hot/worn out by school.

Yes it's not nice to be shouted at and it is rude behaviour but the way you're suggesting to "punish" her for it is very roundabout in its logic and much too far away from the behaviour, which means it is unlikely to make sense to her.

Does she do it to other people or just you? The pattern is usually that they only do it to parents (sometimes one specific parent) and siblings.

she screams that I don’t know her at all

Translation: I am so tired after behaving all day, can we please just go home.

By offering kindness she is so tired after school, and you are her safe space so she will either break down and cry, or yell at you.

She knows you know her very very well. So please don’t pretend you don’t by not offering her ice cream all summer.

I thought similar. My ASD/PDA 6 year old can be like this. No amount of punishing will rectify PDA behaviours.

How is she doing at school generally?

She is old enough to know it’s not acceptable to be rude and shout like that. A simple “no thank you” or “could we just go home?” is suffice.

And all the “she needs time and space to regulate her own emotions after school” brigade are part of the reason we have so many badly behaved children out there.

Tiredness is not an excuse for poor or rude behaviour. If she has the energy to shout and stomp off, she has the energy to say “not today thanks mum”

For people saying it's cruel and pointless please explain how? It's the definition of natural consequences, you shout and scream at someone that you hate cold things and how dare they offer you one and you clearly don't know them at all etc....that's horrible behaviour. And if you do that then the natural consequence is that you don't get offered an ice cream.

It’s jokey in a way. Mostly- I am exasperated.
But I don’t think it’s “roundabout” to not offer ice cream to someone who has screamed at you that that hate ice cream in response to being offered it. It’s literally what she asked for.

Is everything ok in school? something could be upsetting her and she's taking it out on you?

@Dramatic a year of not being allowed a family treat is the opposite of natural consequences. Consequences need to be there and then, not premeditated.

I agree with everyone saying her behaviour is communication. I disagree with everyone saying she is old enough to know better. Your DD is 7 and struggles with emotion after school when she's tired/hot/wet/hungry/thirsty. There might be a reason why she struggles more with emotional regulation than other 7 year olds, there might not be. But we have to parent the children we have, not the one we imagine or the one society thinks we should have.

I vote for non verbal communication after school.

It sounds almost calculating to punish for such a long length of time. Ridiculous. They're most likely just an over stimulated, knackered child at the end of a school day. Probably need and drink and a snack but are so far past being reasonable because they're so overstimulated and tired.

If you can't be kind, then just be quiet. Don't offer anything, don't ask questions. A simple 'Let's get home. I love you' will suffice. Deal with snacks and a drink at home by putting a few options on the table/counter and don't even discuss them.

Offer ice-cream at another point when they've had time to decompress.

It almost sounds like you don't like her at this stage and that will come across. I know you'll love her but that involves dealing with the rough periods which do pass.

OP, you are only engaging with people ho disagree with you. Have you noticed that?

@olafandme what is behind your exasperation? Is it because you think she should know better than to shout at you? If we see that she is shouting due to emotional dysregulation, then it's not a "truth" that she doesn't like ice cream, so it is a roundabout logic to assume that it is.

@Pricelessadvice "And all the “she needs time and space to regulate her own emotions after school” brigade are part of the reason we have so many badly behaved children out there."

Agreed. If regulating emotions is being rude, mouthy and nasty, then this is definitely the way to go.

This is an example of playing psychological games with a seven year old. Not good.

@ginasevern and @Pricelessadvice all of current child psychology seems to disagree with you.

It's not about ice-cream though. You're her safe space. Kids get tired and then they have to transition from school life to home life. Every day, getting more worn out as the close to the end of year gets.

It's like when you're in labour. You do stage 1, then you transition into stage 2. If you were offered something during that transition stage you would probably scream at them as well.

She's a little kid learning how to navigate her emotions. You don't punish relentlessly for that. It's not about ruddy ice-cream. She'll talk about it for years when she's an adult.

I get it, it’s not nice to get shouted at by your kid when they’re all over the place emotionally. But holding a child to account for a whole summer for it is borderline abusive IMO. How on earth will she feel watching everyone else get a treat and her not having one? Probably absolutely miserable, and she may not equate it as a punishment for being a stressed out kid.

How is it psychological games? She literally screamed that she hates cold things, if she didn't mean it then her not getting those things for a while might make her think twice about screaming such things at her mother.

She is regulating her emotions by having quiet time after school to decompress. But she has a mother who (seemingly with good intentions) pushes those limits and then gets annoyed when her daughter gets annoyed.

often when I get home from work I need half an hour quiet time and may not be at my best if I can’t have it. But I am a lot older than 7 so over the years have learnt better ways to cope (most of the time!)

Sounds like she's having extreme emotional reactions for whatever reason. I don't think you can threaten/punish/rationalise her out of them.

Who the hell needs to be kind to someone who is shouting and screaming at them?! I feel like the world is going mad at this point.

And YY the way to manage school pick up when they are exhausted by school in this way is to keep it extremely predictable and routine and as short as possible. Go straight home, don't stop anywhere, and don't ask them to make any decisions. Even a nice decision like whether or not to have an ice cream. If she is likely to be hungry then you could ask her at a calmer time at the weekend what (out of a selection of snacks) she wants you to bring to school pick up, and then only ever bring that, but TBH if it always backfires then I just wouldn't bring anything. I would focus on getting home ASAP.

Rather than offering the snack verbally, you could hold one out, or you could make a statement like "The rice cakes are in my bag" or just show her where they are while you're doing the weekend thing. Then if she wants a snack she can get one or ask for one and if she doesn't want one she doesn't have to answer a question about it. Likewise I agree with the poster saying bring a large umbrella for yourself or one each and just put yours up without comment and make hers available in case she wants it.

Make sure you yourself are as regulated and steeled to sort of "beam your zen" at them and not be derailed or feel worried by it. Hydrated, fed, been to the toilet, deep breaths/power pose/whatever works for you to insulate yourself against the bad mood (because it is very catching - I get caught up in DS2's moods very easily and it really doesn't help). If she finds something to shout and complain about anyway, try not to respond in kind, keep your voice steady and low and slow and try either being extra sympathetic (e.g. "Ugh sounds like you've had a bit of a day of it!") or you can go the other way and be jokey in response. Sometimes I get DS to rate the day out of 5. He always rates it 100/0 or 0/100 so it's very clear what his overall impression of the day was.

I do have a rule that afternoon screen time is dependent on safe behaviour on the way home - we are working on not hitting. So any hitting results in losing some portion of screen time in the afternoon. Shouting at the moment is less serious than hitting but if he has got into a loop of screaming and threatening then sometimes I will add that on to interrupt it. It has helped a bit, but I don't think it's helpful to have some big grand punishment that doesn't take small improvements into account - this kind of behaviour is much more of a sign they are struggling than any kind of "entitlement" or "brattiness".

You said yourself it dissipates once she is home, which fits with the restraint collapse type theory.

Interesting that your DH doesn't seem to agree with this strategy. Did your DD accept an ice cream when he offered it?

What, that children should be allowed to be rude and nasty?

But the child's reactions probably have nothing to do with cold things or whatever else she lashed out about. She's 7 and presumably struggling with something else.