Showing support for terrorism is illegal so why do people do it?

[Nowayyousure]

Well we all know it's illegal, don't we?

It happens though. The flags, the signs, the slogans, the chants, what is said etc.

Kneecap was charged on supporting terrorism. I understand that the charges relate to things like waving the Hezbollah flag and shouting in support of terrorist organisations.

He has been bailed pending trial.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4k4xnlj8qo

Unless I have missed some news, the (provisional) IRA effectively honoured the terms of the GFA. Not the action of blood crazed thugs.

The Rest Is History recently completed a mammoth 6-part deep dive into the story of Ireland up to end of the civil war. Well worth a listen if only to learn the origins of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael.

To counterbalance my comments in NI, the innocent protestant people suffered horrendous violence too from the UDA in their area.

The innocent people who live side by side with freedom fighters for protection aren't safe from them either

They honoured the GFA because it was never about the ‘struggle’ for them in reality.

They raised their money by acting as gangsters (rigged and unlicensed high stakes gambling machines, placed in fast food shops, being one easy source of revenue, which continues to drive gambling addiction amongst the communities they live amongst) and this continued and escalated after the agreement.

Tony Blair effectively allowed them to walk away from hideous acts of depravity, mostly with little to no consequence, which meant they could concentrate on their lucrative acts of organised crime. And, let’s face it, the “real IRA” didn’t just spring up from nowhere - not everyone in PIRA adhered to Good Friday.

BTW, like a PP above, I’m not blind to the very similar actions of the Protestant aligned groups who were far too often aided and abetted by UK security forces and the wider UK Govt. None of them were “freedom fighters” in even the loosest application of that title.

You know what ?

At some point the finer points of a conflict can wash over a lot of people who - rather naively - are just happy the bombs have stopped. I realise how upsetting that can be for principled people, but then what can you do ?

I grew up in London in the 70s and 80s. I now live in Birmingham. I have yet to meet someone who isn't glad we don't have to experience the sporadic but regular anxiety of a bomb threat or evacuation.

And that's just a part of the complexities of deciding who is where on the snakes and ladders of history.

So again:

I know that YOU don't think they are freedom fighters.
However - do YOU think that OTHER people might consider them freedom fighters, regardless of what you think about them?

When you start torturing and murdering the people you’re allegedly fighting for you lose the right to call yourself “freedom fighters.”

But yes.. “you can fool some of the people all of the time.”

Of course invading countries - what was it ? - torture and murder. So what does that make them ?

At what point have I excused the behaviour of countries that invade other countries?!

Even condemning the behaviour of aggressive national governments (which in some cases I absolutely do) doesn’t negate my posts about criminal organisations describing themselves as “freedom fighters”

This.

I'd never romanticise terrorists. Kneecapping fellowmen who didn't do as told is nothing to be proud of. The punishments to their own and the killing of 'others' is nothing to get romantic about. Some people are fooled by romantic notions, other people aren't.

Ultimately it comes down to them disagreeing with your view on things.

They would argue that Hezbollah are not terrorists and in fact Israel is committing genocide and Hezbollah are trying to fight back in the only way a small gorilla force can against a 1st world military. (Please note I do not support this view I am merely encouraging debate)

They would argue that the USA is the bad one as they killed thousands of civilians in the middle east between Iraq and Afgan.

In my view the truth lies somewhere in the middle, those committing deliberate acts of violence against innocent civilians whatever race/colour/religion/nationality are terrible and are in the wrong. One side doing something bad does not mean the other should join in or copy.

Unfortunately with the world as it is there will continue to be violence there will continue to be terrorists and there will continue to be disagreements over who is the bad guy.

You can criticise Kneecap all you want, but just leave the IRA out of this - they've done nothing wrong.

Please tell us you’re being ironic.

Supporting Hezbollah isn't just a difference of opinion, it's illegal.

People have been pointing out that that doesn’t necessarily mean immoral though (I don’t support Hezbollah).
The Suffragettes did many illegal things because it was the right thing to do. Many people were conscientious objectors. Today there are young people in Israel facing jail rather than doing their military service.

Regardless, the current policing of peaceful protester seems over the top.

And ?

Laws are an artificial construct and bear only a passing relation to morality.

People who slavishly follow "the law" are not people I like to be around in great numbers. As a mass, they are not very bright.

If you think obeying the law by not supporting terrorists makes someone not very bright then I dont think I want to be around you either.

The suffragettes didn't murder anyone or rape anyone, and weren't formed with the gial of obliterating an entire country.

You can move the prism around all you like. If you have delegated your conscience to other people - no matter what excuses you dream up - then you are simply living in someone elses universe.

Personally, I am quite happy to use my own conscience - and suffer the consequences. We wouldn't have many (if any) of the liberties we enjoy today if others before us had not followed that same path. Even if it led to some very unpleasant circumstances.

I've delegated my conscious because I dont support Hezbollah?

If that's how you feel.

I may - or may not - support Hezbollah. Greg Wallace or Greta Thunberg. But whatever I decide will be based on what I feel to be right and not what some scrap of paper may - or may not - say. And that is an end to that.

Sometimes I broadly agree with the law. And I am aware that as part of the secret social contract there is a place for obeying without agreeing. Which is the case for quite a few laws in the UK.

However every once in a while, there may be a law that is drafted - or applied - so egregiously that respecting it becomes tantamount to complicity. I've supplied an example upthread which I thank all the Gods there are that I did not have to face.

I care more about my conscience and doing what I believe to be right than what you think. And I suspect that is what riles some people over some issues.

The suffragettes did have a bombing campaign and there was good reason to fear assassination attempts. They weren’t playing around and just waving placards!
You also missed the point. They were imprisoned. For protesting for something you agree with.
Your OP suggests you are making a general point. But you keep coming back to a specific example.
Somebody has just been arrested for holding up a copy of Private Eye discussing the issue. This should concern us all. Some of us warned about this under the previous government. Hold a placard up saying that we shouldn’t kill civilians can now get you arrested but the far right are free to attack asylum seekers!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette_bombing_and_arson_campaign

You also missed the point. They were imprisoned. For protesting for something you agree with.

Not just imprisoned. Violently force-fed too. (It wasn't unknown for prisoners to die after being force fed, so you can imagine the level of violence employed).

People on the "right" side of history would do very well to remember how they got there. Or in the case of some people, learning in the first instance.

Quite. It’s like people have forgotten about the Cat and Mouse Act. Do they only teach the suffragists theses days and ignore the suffragettes?
Have people forgotten what happened to Alan Turing because of our laws (and many, many others). The innocent people who lost their lives when we had the death penalty. What is legal and what is moral are different elements. Whilst I am generally a law abiding person I like to think I would fight for what is right if push came to shove.

Have people forgotten

most of them never knew ...