New abortion laws

[Cheesetoastie537]

TW

I'm pro choice but the new potential abortion law changes feel a bit extreme to me. If I've understood right, if a woman was even in late stage of pregnancy (even say 35 weeks) could self abort the pregnancy and not face any charges for the death of a viable baby. I thought the 24 week mark was there for that reason. I know a woman still can't get a medically assisted abortion after 24 weeks (unless certain circumstances) but surely they'll just go home and do it now because theres nothing preventing them. No one should be in that situation surely. But if it was a case that a late pregnancy is now not wanted but a medically assisted abortion is not available and the woman knows they can do it themselves with no charges, wouldn't that just increase self done abortions?

If anything, shouldn't the law just change so that medical abortion at any stage is allowed then to at least make it safe for woman rather than them attempting a self abortion.

I'm not sure if the change in law opens up more issues than it fixes. And in part I feel that there's no protection for late pregnancies that the baby would have survived and now there's no legal charges for their life.

I've never really thought too much about abortion otherthan pro choice and felt the UK had a good middle ground.

How would you "self abort" a 35 week pregnancy? You'd have to induce labour.

Do you really think that we will have women getting to 35 weeks and deciding “actually, don’t want this, I’ll do an at home abortion”. Do you really think the law is what is stopping this at the moment?
How would you even do it? Induce labour and then what? Kill the baby? Killing a baby born alive would still remain illegal.

It’s disgraceful and a sinister depiction of our society.

Who gets to 35 weeks pregnant, and simply thinks "can't be arsed anymore, I'll have a termination at home because I won't be arrested now"?

If you don't trust women then just say that.

You’re not pro-choice if you follow it with “but”.

This law will decriminalise women who suffer miscarriage or late abortions. I completely agree with it.

YABU @Cheesetoastie537.

This. Your entire post is riddled with ignorance and bias @Cheesetoastie537

you clearly know nothing about the real reasons for (the small number) of late abortions that occur.

Firstly, where is your evidence?
because the article I read said that women will no longer be prosecuted for it.

if you’re about the safety of women and their choices then I’m not sure you would post such rage bait

Which is how a 24/25 week abortion is performed though. An injection is given to stop the heart then labour is induced.

Not the kind of thing you'd do for a laugh

Yes that's the idea, you'd induce labour but with the intention of it being deceased. The abortion doesn't make the baby disappear, just terminates its life and then flushes it from the body. That's similar to abortions at earlier stages too though - kill it, then flush it from the body.

The point of the proposed changes is to stop women getting prosecuted for procuring an abortion solely based on their own decision, i.e. to allow them to not involve doctors who might try to talk them out of it or even veto it (it's not a right to have an abortion at present, doctors have to agree it is necessary or at least there is an acceptable reason like potential damage to the mother's physical or mental health - which is admittedly a very low hurdle to clear in most cases).

If you're in favour of womens' rights then I guess this is a necessary step - you're either pro-choice or you're not, either a woman should be able to terminate her pregancy or she should never be allowed to.

Personally I'm very much pro-abortion, I don't think there should be any restrictions at all. That said, I can understand the viewpoint that they shouldn't be allowed at all. For me it's an all-or-nothing situation, compromises that fall in the middle somewhere don't make much sense.

It is a very extreme proposal. Personally, I feel that abortion is a settled issue in our society, so I have no idea why we would want to open it up to the culture war as has happened elsewhere.

It is going to be a field day for Farage and the far-right, and those on the far-left proposing this will have to be careful we don't end up with fewer rights as a result of restarting this debate.

@Dotjones

I don't see why it's an all or nothing situation at all.

I believe that cars should be allowed to drive on roads. That doesn't mean I have to agree they can be driven at 200mph!

I wish abortions were just allowed at any stage during pregnancy but I can understand why this is needed with the current laws.

Women aren't suddenly going to start trying to abort their pregnancies just because they won't face any criminal charges.

In todays episode of "what objects are women being compared to...."

I think that women who present with something a late miscarriage whilst unaware of being pregnant need to feel able to seek appropriate medical care.

Recent prosecutions like Nicola Packer are concerning. This woman was in a bad enough way to need surgical management. This prosecution could encourage someone in a similar situation to stay home with painkillers and hope for the best. Personally I'd rather protect the women in these cases.

OP you lost me at ‘I’m pro choice BUT….’

But most late abortions are TFMRs which have always been legal, and medically assisted.
What is the benefit of legalising "self abortion" of a healthy baby but not legalising medically assisted abortions at that stage? You can't give birth and then suffocate the baby presumably so you'd have to try and ensure it was dead first. And given that isn't something women will suddenly start doing just cos they can, what purpose does the law serve? I'm genuinely interested in learning what point I'm missing. When would this law be used?

@BeachLife2

It is a very extreme proposal.

Why do you think that?

Personally, I feel that abortion is a settled issue in our society

Why do you think that, given that this is being discussed/voted on, and has been the subject of much discussion and reporting in the media for some time?

so I have no idea why we would want to open it up to the culture war as has happened elsewhere.

Why do you think this is about a ‘culture war’? In fact, what do you even mean by that?

I’m guessing that you’re really not in favour of women’s rights.

Edited to add: do you even know what this is about?

"I'm pro choice But" - basically means you don't trust women to make good choices that women shouldn't be allowed autonomy. You really need to ask yourself why you think that.

Excuse my ignorance but how would a woman administer her own late abortion? Doesn't feticide involve injecting the sac with a lethal substance to stop the heart? Would she need to inject herself?

Can someone please explain in simple terms what this law is for, every website says slightly different and it’s confusing!

I am confused as to how someone at 37 weeks can have a self abortion or have I got my wires crossed

How in your mind would a women “self abort” a pregnancy at 35 weeks? Without killing herself??

to me it is very simple: if abortion is a crime, a woman who has a miscarriage is a crime suspect. This is unacceptable.

miscarriage = spontaneous abortion
medical abortion = voluntary abortion

the idea of all spontaneous abortions being investigated to see if they were voluntary is horrifying and how would they prove it anyway? Would they lock women up unless they looked really really sad which would prove it was spontaneous?

Yeah I am all for this law change. I can’t think of a scenario where decriminalisation isn’t appropriate.

How are you going to get to 35 weeks and suddenly decide you are going to abort your child? If that does happen that’s clearly a mental illness, lack of agency or lack of access to medical care for whatever reason.

And how would you even do that. Really. Think logically.

I’d be more concerned about non medical individuals offering a service rather than women self aborting. I’d feel very concerned this will lead to unregulated dangerous procedures taking place . Women will be told
to keep quiet and go home by people who will profit

No you haven’t. The OP has got hers crossed, or maybe not and is disingenuous.