New abortion laws

[Cheesetoastie537]

TW

I'm pro choice but the new potential abortion law changes feel a bit extreme to me. If I've understood right, if a woman was even in late stage of pregnancy (even say 35 weeks) could self abort the pregnancy and not face any charges for the death of a viable baby. I thought the 24 week mark was there for that reason. I know a woman still can't get a medically assisted abortion after 24 weeks (unless certain circumstances) but surely they'll just go home and do it now because theres nothing preventing them. No one should be in that situation surely. But if it was a case that a late pregnancy is now not wanted but a medically assisted abortion is not available and the woman knows they can do it themselves with no charges, wouldn't that just increase self done abortions?

If anything, shouldn't the law just change so that medical abortion at any stage is allowed then to at least make it safe for woman rather than them attempting a self abortion.

I'm not sure if the change in law opens up more issues than it fixes. And in part I feel that there's no protection for late pregnancies that the baby would have survived and now there's no legal charges for their life.

I've never really thought too much about abortion otherthan pro choice and felt the UK had a good middle ground.

The point is they aren’t legalising it. They are decriminalising it. Basically saying there’s something has gone very wrong here and as it’s never going to be beyond reasonable doubt that the person was sane due to perinatal mental health that there is no point putting someone through prosecution when there is no chance of actually prosecuting someone.

It's not really about the strawman of 37 week pregnancies. Its about making medical care the priority over intrusive investigations.

www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=bills.parliament.uk/publications/53621/documents/4252&ved=2ahUKEwi6sLGnqfiNAxViU0EAHdn-AkAQFnoECCUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw15ptazjBr_BKi8mXIChBmf

6 women have been prosecuted in the last 2 years for abortions, this is more than the total prosecutions under the act from when it was introduced in 1861-2022. This is not a settled issue, there is an agenda here to punish women for abortion.

Nigel Farage has made comments about restricting access to abortion to 12 weeks. He is saying this because he is being paid to by organisations who seek to limit our rights.

Farage is a real problem.

Actually it's not black and white there is such a thing as nuance.

How in your mind would a women “self abort” a pregnancy at 35 weeks? Without killing herself??

Yes this is the issue- there have been quite a few criticisms of the bill as endangering women who may be under pressure to terminate pregnancies at a very late stage at a risk to their own lives. I think people on this thread perhaps need to imagine beyond the “woman spontaneously decides to terminate a pregnancy” and imagine some of the much darker situations women can be in.

There is an interesting exchange on Twitter between Stella Creasy and Nikki da Costa which sets the arguments on both sides out well. But in short, it’s not clear that decriminalisation necessarily protects the interests of vulnerable women. Changing sentencing guidelines so that women who have very late terminations receive support rather than punishment is arguably a better approach. None of this is about being “anti choice” but about recognising that not all women have full agency.

Anything protects women from undue prosecution and investigation during what is already an incredibly stressful, heartbreaking period is a good thing imo. There is no good that comes from criminalising women who have made desperate choices. Abortions after 12 weeks are rare. After 24 weeks vanishingly rare (0.1% of about 300 women in 2021) and self-performed even rarer still. Noone should be afraid to seek medical help in a crisis.

That should say 0.1 or 300 women.

It’s not a settled issue though. Prosecutions have rapidly and worryingly increased in the last few years and it’s not exactly a secret that the American evangelical right has had a hand in this.

this.

Those individuals would be breaking the law. They’d be carrying out medical procedures. A medical procedure being completely legal doesn’t make it legal for a non HCP to carry it out at home. So if they’re willing to do it, they’d be doing it now.

Sorry do you think people who want to pressure/force a woman into giving herself an abortion at 35 weeks are currently not doing it because they want to be nice law abiding citizens?

And actually, decriminalising it would make it easier for that woman to seek help without worrying she’ll be arrested!

Isn't this law change trying to protect us from the utter insanity currently happening in the US? No one is suddenly thinking at 35 weeks 'oh gosh I don't know about this, lets abort and go through the whole process of childbirth anyway though' the whole notion of abortion being used as 'birth control' is made up by the right wing media. As PP says women who have had a miscarriage shouldn't be criminal suspects, which they now are in the US.

The change simply means that women like Nicola Packer are not dragged through the courts completely unnecessarily, and instead get the help and support they might need.

If you oppose that, then honestly you need to give your head a wobble.

Would they lock women up unless they looked really really sad which would prove it was spontaneous?

Do you think women who have voluntary terminations look happy and chilled?

I agree with the new law - abortion needs to be decriminalised. The women in the US thought they were safe with Roe vs Wade but as we saw, they were not

But you can't do that yourself. It's like making performing brain surgery on yourself illegal.

Saw this

Surely it won't be passed?

Exactly my point. It’s impossible to assess from a women’s behaviour or expressions whether or not her pregnancy termination was chosen or not.

I think that this could put women experiencing domestic violence at risk of taking responsibility for abuse from a partner.

This law is about protecting women who have late miscarriages or early labour. Right now, these women are being investigated and prosecuted although they have done nothing wrong, often just because they have Googled abortion information. The police have been told to search women's phones and social media. The number of prosecutions has shot up recently. This law will end that. It needs to pass.

absolutely against this, as is i suspect the majority, otherwise there wouldnt be an attempt to slip this through on the back of sonething else, it would be given the coverage it deserves. healthy babies 24 weeks+ should never be aborted unless theres a terminal threat to the mothers life. if that makes me anti abortion so be it. I'll never advocate for women to terminate up until birth, its barbaric.

You do understand that this law means women can't be prosecuted, the police can't access their Internet history, or their period tracking apps, or their messages.

It doesn't mean women will be off having late term abortions for funsies because they can't be arrested now.

It means women in harrowing situations won't face an investigation and potential prosecution now.

Which women will do this just for the sake of it?

I do not believe they will be doing it for funsies either. But I do believe that some men will push their partners to do it, because they will view it as a socially acceptable, legal thing to do.