Page 31 | Iran - full evacuation of Tehran?

Fitasafiddle1 · 2025-06-17T03:18:06+00:00

Genuinely finding it hard to sleep now having seen the news that Tehran - a population of 10 million are being urgently advised to leave. Is anyone else feeling very concerned (and nervous) watching what is now taking place in the ME? It is being reported that Israel have ‘full ariel control’ of Iran? https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-has-full-control-of-tehrans-airspace-over-100-missile-launchers-destroyed-idf-says/ https://www.euronews.com/2025/06/17/trump-hints-at-major-israeli-offensive-as-he-urges-all-of-tehran-to-evacuate-immediately [[https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/liveblog/2025/6/17/live-israel-iran-trade-attacks-trump-orders-residents-of-tehran-to-flee https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/liveblog/2025/6/17/live-israel-iran-trade-attacks-trump-orders-residents-of-tehran-to-flee]]

Dangermoo · 21/06/2025 09:41

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

CleverButScatty · 21/06/2025 09:47

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You undermine your point with your personal insults.
Can be specific about what aspect of my post you disagree with rather than making a vague insinuation that I'm a 'dummy' who has my facts wrong.

Dangermoo · 21/06/2025 09:49

CleverButScatty · 21/06/2025 09:47

You undermine your point with your personal insults.
Can be specific about what aspect of my post you disagree with rather than making a vague insinuation that I'm a 'dummy' who has my facts wrong.

Show quote history

How is it a personal insult, when the dummy text is a collection of material issued in different subjects? See Maths for Dummies as an example.

CleverButScatty · 21/06/2025 09:52

noblegiraffe · 21/06/2025 09:41

We're on a thread about Iran. Iran fund the Houthis. The Houthis are involved in attacks on Israel. You have variously said that no one attacking Israel is antisemitic and also that Iran hasn't attacked Israel.

The Houthis therefore seem pretty relevant.

Show quote history

I have not said that nobody attacking Israel is antisemitic.
I am saying that the global demand for an end to the genocide in Palestine is not motivated, for the very vast majority of people, by antisemitism. Or sympathy with terrorist groups. The fact that they seek and end to the genocide does not mean they support antisemitic or terrorist groups.

Glad we both got the chance to clear that up.

CleverButScatty · 21/06/2025 09:55

Dangermoo · 21/06/2025 09:49

How is it a personal insult, when the dummy text is a collection of material issued in different subjects? See Maths for Dummies as an example.

Show quote history

Ah, and is there a published 'dummies' guide on their particular topic? Perhaps you could post an Amazon link, or give be the ISBN number?

And of the history books that you feel I am allowed to read on the matter, I wonder who wrote them and published them, and from what perspective?

noblegiraffe · 21/06/2025 09:55

CleverButScatty · 21/06/2025 09:52

I have not said that nobody attacking Israel is antisemitic.
I am saying that the global demand for an end to the genocide in Palestine is not motivated, for the very vast majority of people, by antisemitism. Or sympathy with terrorist groups. The fact that they seek and end to the genocide does not mean they support antisemitic or terrorist groups.

Glad we both got the chance to clear that up.

Show quote history

Glad you finally agree that some people are motivated by antisemitism.

Are you now going to agree that Iran has actually attacked Israel?

ClockFront · 21/06/2025 09:58

thepariscrimefiles · 21/06/2025 09:02

I agree with this statement

'And for what is worth. Hamas attacked Israel. That is enough motivation. If another country massacred UK citizens we would do the same back. Are they meant to just sit and meekly take it? Did anyone think that was what would happen? Of course not.
They literally massacred another countries innocent citizens and had the audacity to complain when they retaliated. It's absurd.'

I believe that what happened on October 7th was the worst massacre and torture of Jews since the Holocaust. Do I believe that Israel had the right to defend itself. Absolutely. Do I believe that Hamas are antisemitic? Yes I do. Do I believe that many people in the Iranian government and their proxies are anti-semitic? Yes I do.

However, I still believe that the IDF is guilty of war crimes and that what is happening in Gaza is a genocide. I believe that Netanyahu uses antisemitism to deflect justified criticism and outrage and I don't think he gives a toss about the remaining hostages. His motivation is to remain in power indefinitely to avoid being held to account for his corruption. After the Iranian strike on an Israeli hospital which killed many Israeli citizens, he said that he and his family were suffering too as they have had to cancel their son's wedding for the second time. Like Trump, he completely lacks empathy and his motivation is always self-interest.

Show quote history

Agree with this.

CleverButScatty · 21/06/2025 10:08

noblegiraffe · 21/06/2025 09:55

Glad you finally agree that some people are motivated by antisemitism.

Are you now going to agree that Iran has actually attacked Israel?

Show quote history

Honestly you are clutching at anything to deflect from the atrocities in Palestine.

No Iran has not attacked Israel first. The example I gave above of the IRA bomb attack in Warrington in the 1980s. It was horrific but did not constitute an attack, an act of war, by the Irish government on the UK. The UK couldn't have started randomly bombing Dublin in the hope of catching a few terrorists.

The recognised governments of countries and terror groups that operate there are not interchangeable.

Also your point above is ridiculous. I am sensible enough to know that unless I have spoken to every last person on the planet who opposes genocide in Israel I can't know all their motivation. I do not believe, for the very vast majority of relates to antisemitism. Because that is unnatural viewpoint into which people need to be indoctrinated. To be appalled at human suffering is a natural state.

What is your post? That Israel should be allowed to commit genocide and war crimes, and attack other countries because some people who want them to stop their warcrimes may harbour prejudice against their religion.
It's fucking genocide and attacking external countries (an act of war). It needs to stop full stop.

noblegiraffe · 21/06/2025 10:15

Honestly you are clutching at anything to deflect from the atrocities in Palestine.

Batshit. I'm discussing Iran and its proxies on a thread about Iran. Am I not allowed to do that? Is this entire thread deflecting from the atrocities in Palestine because it's about Iran?

Is it an automatic reflex? Can you not go 5 minutes without accusing someone of supporting genocide?

Dangermoo · 21/06/2025 10:15

Another day, another round of clichés, and soundbites. Time for me to get my picnic sorted.

Testing123546 · 21/06/2025 10:15

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

HellsBalls · 21/06/2025 10:28

@CleverButScatty
7 genocides in one message!!
Good effort.

Does not make it a genocide though.

1.5% Gaza’s population (of 2 million) have perished (30,000 non-combatant deaths), which is terrible, even in a war, which it is.
However 1.5% is not a genocide, it’s not even decimated, which would be much, much worse.

Twiglets1 · 21/06/2025 10:30

CleverButScatty · 21/06/2025 08:12

You just won't see past your prejudice and actually hear what people are saying.

The people campaigning for an end to genocide are not doing so because anyone is Jewish, Muslim or anything else. It is because people have empathy and can identify with how they would feel if it was their dad shot dead in the street trying desperately to get food for his starving family, they can imagine how they would feel if it was his bleeding body on the ground, him in pain, him they would never see again. They can imagine how they would feel if their small child had become mute, so traumatised by seeing people die and injured around them, living in mortal fear so long they have lost the ability to speak. They actively try and imagine how they would feel if it was their tiny baby lying lifeless on their arms, after 9 months of pregnancy, all the hope and excitement, only for their tiny life to be cut short.

I am not saying Hamas aren't a religious group, they have come about primarily as a resistance to the oppression of the Palestinians. If it was not them it would be someone else, because you can't systematically abuse an entire people for decades and expect them not to fight back. If they are electorally disenfranchised and have few rights under and aparteid regime, you are likely to see violence in the approaches and there will be people in the oppressor's group hurt. Obviously a small fraction of the number that are hurt in the oppressed's group.

Nobody fighting for an end to the genocide is doing so because those perpetrating it happen to be Jewish. They are fighting because genocide is evil (I need a stronger word but can't think of one).

Who are you accusing of being prejudiced now?

Xenia · 21/06/2025 10:33

Lots of deletions since I was on this yesterday. The bombing of nuclear facilities at Isfahan caught my eye today. That was one of the places where I was on business a good while back but not at the nuclear facility (although I have in England been to nuclear facilities occasionally for work things).
I am glad Israel now controls the Iranian skies. We have been subjected to terror funded by or from Iran even here in the UK for far too long.

I hope t eh UK catches the British terrorists (I am assuming they British) who entered the airforce bases to sabotage planes. Entering UK military facilities on home soil normally presumably runs the risk that you may be shot. It is a very bad lapse of security that they got in. https://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/news/thames-valley/news/2025/june/16-06-2025/counter-terrorism-policing-south-east-investigates-damage-to-aircraft/

Twiglets1 · 21/06/2025 10:42

thepariscrimefiles · 21/06/2025 09:02

I agree with this statement

'And for what is worth. Hamas attacked Israel. That is enough motivation. If another country massacred UK citizens we would do the same back. Are they meant to just sit and meekly take it? Did anyone think that was what would happen? Of course not.
They literally massacred another countries innocent citizens and had the audacity to complain when they retaliated. It's absurd.'

I believe that what happened on October 7th was the worst massacre and torture of Jews since the Holocaust. Do I believe that Israel had the right to defend itself. Absolutely. Do I believe that Hamas are antisemitic? Yes I do. Do I believe that many people in the Iranian government and their proxies are anti-semitic? Yes I do.

However, I still believe that the IDF is guilty of war crimes and that what is happening in Gaza is a genocide. I believe that Netanyahu uses antisemitism to deflect justified criticism and outrage and I don't think he gives a toss about the remaining hostages. His motivation is to remain in power indefinitely to avoid being held to account for his corruption. After the Iranian strike on an Israeli hospital which killed many Israeli citizens, he said that he and his family were suffering too as they have had to cancel their son's wedding for the second time. Like Trump, he completely lacks empathy and his motivation is always self-interest.

Show quote history

Yes I agree that statement Netanyahu made about his son’s wedding was completely lacking in empathy for people who have suffered much worse. It does suggest a narcissistic personality to be so self centred.

I expect certain members of the IDF will be found guilty of war crimes after the war but certainly not the whole IDF. There will be investigations after the war ends and at that point it will be decided who is guilty of war crimes and whether what happened will go down in history as a war or a genocide.

At the moment different organisations have different opinions on this. I call it a war because I don’t believe it is the intention of the IDF to kill all Palestinians in Gaza but rather to destroy Hamas.

devourfeculence · 21/06/2025 11:09

CleverButScatty · 21/06/2025 09:47

You undermine your point with your personal insults.
Can be specific about what aspect of my post you disagree with rather than making a vague insinuation that I'm a 'dummy' who has my facts wrong.

Show quote history

Bit rich coming from someone who called another poster a cow earlier.

Stirabout · 21/06/2025 12:58

Now Trump says US intelligence on Iranian nuclear capabilities are Wrong!

so the IAEA who do the checks are wrong and Trump knows best.

Sound familiar

noraheggerty · 21/06/2025 16:09

CleverButScatty · 20/06/2025 20:47

You know exactly what power that threat holds and don't pretend you don't. How many people have lost their careers etc to that label for opposing Israel's actions or the ideology of Zionism.

Show quote history

Can you name any?

HarrietPierce · 21/06/2025 19:03

Sangita Myska Belle Donati

Sadcafe · 21/06/2025 19:21

CleverButScatty · 21/06/2025 09:03

The current regime is not good to it's people and particularly women, but it's beyond arrogant to assume that most people in an Islamic country would be happier under a Western regime, especially one forced on them!

There are international organisations working on human rights abuses, and that work should continue to challenge their government. Where democracy is thwarted in a country again there are international groups working on this (not to be confused with Israel throwing a few bombs their way). If it persists there are peaceful means that hit trade etc. Beyond that Iran, like every other country, should be governing themselves and developing their own government and regime without 'helpful' interference from the west and Israel.

The colonialist mindset of wanting to 'improve' other countries by trying to force Western values and way of life on them is not far away here.

Show quote history

Not sure how your response actually answers the question I posed, I have not suggested imposing a western style government, I asked if people in Iran, given the option , would prefer a regime similar to the one under the Shah or carry on as they are

MistressoftheDarkSide · 21/06/2025 19:22

The B2s are on the move, heading towards Guam apparently.

Trump has a security council meeting at 6 their time.

And so it grinds on....

nomas · 21/06/2025 22:40

HellsBalls · 21/06/2025 10:28

@CleverButScatty
7 genocides in one message!!
Good effort.

Does not make it a genocide though.

1.5% Gaza’s population (of 2 million) have perished (30,000 non-combatant deaths), which is terrible, even in a war, which it is.
However 1.5% is not a genocide, it’s not even decimated, which would be much, much worse.

It’s not a war, it’s the steady annihilation of the Palestinian people and theft of their land.

Dangermoo · 21/06/2025 22:48

Theft of their land? When did it become their land?

Cecilia4848 · 22/06/2025 00:34

Dangermoo · 21/06/2025 22:48

Theft of their land? When did it become their land?

Please can you just google a
bit and then rejoin the discussion 😵‍💫

MistressoftheDarkSide · 22/06/2025 01:00

Just announced on Agenda Free TV - Trump is saying the US have successfully bombed Fordow and other nuclear sites.