To think people saying “I’m setting boundaries” are often just being selfish and dressing it up nicely?

[AmpleJadeSloth]

Not everyone who disagrees with you is toxic.

I think you're right about "boundaries" being essentially synonymous with selfishness. Unlike other posters, I think as a general rule, a lot of the time, people (including women) should try to be less selfish, not more selfish. And I think the problem with the rhetoric of boundaries is that people think it's a magic word that means they don't have to face the consequences of their actions.

A couple of years ago I asked a good friend of mine, who I'd last seen a few weeks earlier when I spent the weekend putting together flat pack furniture in her nearly renovated house, if I could stay in one of her spare bedrooms for the week, since I was working nearby and wasn't being provided with accomodation. She works in the same industry so understands this predicament. She offered to let me stay but only for one evening, even though I was working there for the whole week, because she was going away for a few days and had decided that a boundary was that she didn't want anybody in her newly decorated house without her being there. I said that I thought that was a shitty way to treat a friend, and that I saw our friendship as effectively over because I'd never say no to someone I was close to who needed a favour. I got hysterical phone calls from her and her husband and long emails telling me what a bad person I was. She couldn't get her head around the fact that you are entitled to say no to people, but they are also perfectly entitled to dislike you for it.

Agreed.

My DH had never learned to set boundaries, and has been signed off work now for over a month with extreme burnout. He’s learning to be a bit more selfish, I hope.

This 💯

At the moment, I am doing a course on coping skills (ran by a MH charity). We have just done a session on boundaries. Included was reasons why someone might not have boundaries (a lot of which was what you have said). And we discussed the pushback you get when you set them.

One thing that stuck with me that we were told, was "If you have never had a front door, how do you know that you have to knock on others?"

i guess it depends if you mean the people who declare they're doing it, or the people who just get on with it.

I have never felt the need to declare i'm setting boundaries, but i have definitely done it with a few people over a few things.

If you said “I’m putting my foot down” instead of “I’m setting a boundary” it sounds far less like therapy-speak

But you were being a complete mug by doing any of the things she suggested.

I no longer set myself alight to keep others warm. That is my boundary

I’ve had to set boundaries with my boss/friend. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t have the time or energy for anything else. He’s great fun, but thinks his life is more important than anyone else’s. Tbf, when I point out that he’s being selfish, he listens… until he has another idea 😁

This is so true. I definitely FEEL selfish when I say ‘no, because I can’t cope/don’t want to
find out I should have said no’ (usually the last part to myself) but I think that’s precisely why I’ve become the sort of person who has to remind myself it’s okay to not bend over backwards all the time. Turns out I’ve been getting ridden like a Blackpool donkey by certain people for years and the more I supported them the more they expected and the worse they behaved. I made excuses cos, well, love, and also who wants to know they’re being used? Within the last wee while I had a hard lesson - I have been quite the mug and scarily, other people had to tell me. It was an intervention! So now I tend to err on the side of caution. It’s quite uncomfortable though. I also worry I’m getting selfish, so often take a ‘AIBU’ poll of F&F who are impressively able to say no without it causing a full-blown existential crisis.

Sadly, you're not wrong. I'm a work in progress shall we say.

Absolutely this.

Also, those who become upset about us asserting our boundaries are the people who most benefit from us not having any.

I have had to learn to set boundaries for my physical health. It didn't come naturally. It came after letting my family down again and again by not setting boundaries with others which meant I was too ill to enjoy time with them.

People who can't accept others setting healthy boundaries are usually the selfish ones. I wouldn't have needed to set boundaries if people hadn't taken advantage of my good nature countless times

How someone else responds to your boundaries tells you a lot about them. ie. simply tell someone No and see what happens.
Often their responses can be divided into two categories:

1. reasonable acceptance versus
2. drama (eg. bullying, pressure, manipulation, punishment).

The second category of responders should be avoided like the plague if at all possible or given the grey rock treatment.

Well very put. I was thinking the same thing: a lot of people on this thread (including the OP) seem very confused about what boundaries actually are. Thank you for this very sensible post.

An excellent post.
Time and time again, I hear about this exact dynamic in my line of work as a mental health worker.
I also have lived experience of members of family of origin getting completely incensed when I finally decided to no longer let them stomp all over my boundaries.

I think you'll find it rather difficult to meet an 85 year old who hasn't got SOMETHING physically or mentally wrong with them. But at least it's good to know you've got your abacus out.

This is sth I've never heard or said myself. Guess it's a new way of people saying a set phrase which was previously just explaining a situation and what another shouldn't do?

I think it depends on what you're "disagreeing" on.

Everyone is entitled to put whatever boundaries they want in place in their life - whether or not you disagree with those boundaries is actually a moot point. Either you do and that's all fine, or you don't in which case you say fair enough and move on with your life.

In my experience people who have a problem with boundaries are usually the ones with tendancies to be selfish/controlling/narcissistic.

Do you have an example.

I have boundaries - personally and professionally.
I would rather live my life in a way that suits me and my immediate family than do things I don’t want to do with my precious spare time.
my family (parents and siblings) can be weird/ awful - they never say what they mean and there’s a lot of obligation.
my time is important to me - I will prioritise that. same with work - I have been known to say ‘I am not going to do that for X reason’ (having thought it through) if that doesn’t work for others then I am open to a conversation but unlikely to change my mind.
i have been this way all my life- i think it is OK.

I spent 40 odd years putting others first, family, friends, everyone. I always went out of my way to do others a good turn. A few years ago I needed help. Do you know who was there for me? One person. Several friends and family members id bent over backwards to help couldn't lift the phone to see if I was OK.

My immediate household is my priority now, in particular it's me. You only get one go at it and I'm damned if I'm spending what time I have left dancing to someone else's tune.

I like the concept of boundaries but in practice it's very hard to find two that don't come up against each other in a charged situation. Eg. I have a boundary that I will walk away if I feel disrespected Vs I have a boundary that I will not try to speak to someone who walks off in a huff periodically.

It is about context. When I lived in France, I knew a woman who was very big on therapy speak. Everything was always about ' boundaries', ' personal growth' the outing of ' people pleasers'. You name it. She was very assertive and had very strong boundaries in place in all situations. She also went off with someone else's husband, then dumped him and her family for her new lover. As well as this, she let other people.down at the drop of a hat and didn't take responsibility when bad behaviour needed addressing and explaining. Healthy boundaries are very important. But some people weaponise the whole concept of ' boundaries, no question.

Someone said that people don't seem to know what 'boundaries' means but I think many people don't seem to know what 'selfish' means. Is it a conditioning to see ever putting yourself first as selfish? Because it's not. Just because you do doesn't mean you're automatically doing so at the expense or disregard of others, which is a crucial element of selfishness. There's a huge muddle ground between selfish and martyr to the demands of others.