To think people saying “I’m setting boundaries” are often just being selfish and dressing it up nicely?

[AmpleJadeSloth]

Not everyone who disagrees with you is toxic.

Some people think those with boundaries are selfish. I think it's selfish to disregard other people's boundaries, and silly to disregard your own, especially if you're going to complain about the adverse consequences. An older relative of mine, now no longer with us, would spend a good part of her week chauffeuring grandchildren about and then complaining about how tiring and restrictive it was! If she'd said she could no longer do it, the grandchildren and their parents would have found other solutions, but clearly, she enjoyed her martyrdom too much.

Whoever said people who don't agree with you are toxic? Boundaries are to be accepted or declined – it just means that you are on different pages.

I do know what you mean tbh. I know people who literally won’t do anything for anyone if they don’t want to… sort of fair enough but actually just kind of makes you a shit friend in the end.

An example is a very old friend from school not attending another friend’s 40th birthday or not getting even vaguely involved in any of the planning or doing anything for her. Because they just didn’t want to really. Like okay, but noted. You couldn’t be bothered to put yourself out at all for someone you supposedly love and have known forever.

I also know a few people who were supposedly people pleasers in their youth and have now worked to put down firm boundaries… meaning they just aren’t very nice people any more tbh. Again, would never put themselves out for anyone. Certainly they don’t go around pleasing anyone any more! So maybe you were a people pleaser once but now you’re just kind of a dick tbh. And whether that’s out of selfishness or boundaries doesn’t really matter in practice.

So yeah, there’s different levels, and some boundaries obviously needed, but sometimes it does just feel like it’s an excuse not to be nice or to ever put yourself out at all, even for friends and loved ones.

I think there are some bitter people out there who feel obliged to 'help' all the time and cannot say no to anything.
You often see threads on mumsnet started by sad angry people who don't understand why their levels of supposed selflessness aren't being returned to them.
They view it all as transactional.
And either they think they will eventually receive reward or they carry such intense senses of shame and duty ingrained into them from childhood that they can behave in no other way.
The sad thing is these people are often disliked because they are clearly miserable and make people around them feel guilty and miserable whilst laying themselves open to be used.

In reality we all need to set boundaries and they should be to do with what you actually have available to give iyswim.. without damaging yourself or becoming a bitter twisted person.
Imo it's much much more emotionally mature to have insight into yourself and know when you can't do something.. and to have the courage and self confidence to make it clear and say no!

I used to be a massive people pleaser when younger and I got into some terrible situations. I wanted to be liked and thought of as kind and helpful.

I still try to be kind but I worry so much less about whether or not people like ne or think I'm selfish.
Most of all I do not rise to meet people's expectations because I understand that other people's expectations are not about me. I also understand there are many people out there who will take as much as they are given and keep on going.

I've gone full circle from being a kid and thinking being selfish is the worst thing you can be to understanding that everyone has a right to protect their own piece of mind.

Boundaries are passive selfishness tho.. not active selfishness. Iyswim. I still don't act in an actively selfish manner where I expect and demand other people to do things for me.
But I'm not going to be allowing any nonsense into my life or going to be going out of my way to accommodate batshittery. And I'm not going to be doing anything that harms me even slightly.. unless it's for my kids and is absolutely necessary.

I don’t think people’s mental health was better. It was ignored, not understood or brushed under the carpet if someone did end up burning out because of the weight of expectations on them.

Yes, I have less free time than my parents’ generation or my grandparents, because I work full time, commute and have my own family. But that means I don’t spend my limited free time with people who are making unreasonable demands on me, putting up with toxic behaviour because I live in the same community as them or generally being a doormat. I spend my free time with people who are supportive and trustworthy, so it’s not like I’m isolated.

Of course, it’s frustrating for the unreasonable toxic people because they no longer get to take over people like me.

IME people who think other people's boundaries are selfish are often so entitled they can't handle not getting their own way or being told no.

Context matters so "setting boundaries" can be used as cover for selfishness but more often it's just people trying not to be taken advantage of.

I’m not sure about the toxic bit but I prefer that people say no to me rather than do what many do on here and be a people pleaser who is secretly seething that I didn’t know that they didn’t really mean yes. Being a martyr is toxic behaviour because you’re setting others up to fail.

Another drop and run then? It's like there's bets on who can say the least and get the most pages.

Given the lack of info in your OP, I’m guessing you keep asking someone to do something for you, they have finally said no and you are pissed off. Therefore, YABU.

Sometimes it is ok to be selfish.

we do not need to give and give of ourselves to our own detriment. Sometimes we simply need to say something is too much.

It depends. I am baffled by the 'outraged that M-i-L keeps offering to babysit so we can have a night off - how do I set boundaries?' posts. Or the 'M-i-L has DC 4 days a week unpaid so I can work – I am livid that she lets them watch CBeebies and gives them a biscuit - how can I set proper boundaries?' posts

I was on my knees with exhaustion and isolation when DC were small and would have given anything for a loving granny to offer to help out sometimes. I think of people are doing you favours, your boundaries need to be offset by sympathy with their autonomy.

But all boundaries regarding bullying, coercing, money loans, unrealistic expectations of unpaid help from family who forget you have full-on responsibilities already with a job and family and you live two hours away...those sorts of boundaries are completely fair.

Maybe that's a boundary 😆

I think there is a distinct lack of selfishness with some people. While it is great that they think of others so much it can cause them issues.

My wife is a perfect example, she will always always put other people first to the point she wont do things she wants, she will skip meals if its inconvenient for others, she will go out of her way to drop things off for people when they have asked to borrow them and subsequently not have time to do what she wanted that day.

I think it should be far more usual for people to put themselves first (as long as it doesn't have any major negative impacts on others).

@RedBeech there's a lot of confusion between boundaries and control I think.

A boundary in your example would be, "I don't leave my children with people who let them watch CBeebies" and who then, if MIL lets them watch cbeebies, looks after them themselves instead. That is, in my opinion, a ridiculous boundary, but fine, if you want to choose to pay for childcare or look after your own children all the time to ensure they 100% do what you want 100% of the time, fine.

Control is "I won't let you see my children and I will punish you or I will shout and scream at you because you didn't respect my boundary"

Sadly, so many people think the latter is a boundary. And you're totally right, it's baffling.

We did not allow BIL to be with our children without one of us present at all times as he was a drug addict. This did not mean he was not allowed to go to MIL's house if our DC were there. It meant that if he was there, me or DH had to be there too if we wanted our DC to be there. That was our boundary but we didn't expect anyone else to change their behaviour to accomodate it.

I hate the term setting boundaries it seems to be everywhere on Mumsnet but I have never heard anyone use it in real life
. And I agree OP. often it is often just a phrase used to justify doing something horrible and self centred.

You say selfish like it’s a bad thing.

what we choose to do or not do are the only aspects of life we have any control over. Why would you give that much power away to anyone?

Why is that called setting boundaries though and not just being honest about what you want? And turning down an invitation
What boundary are you setting? Is it that you won't go to the ballet? You won't spend £100 on tickets or that you won't go anywhere with that person.

Setting a boudnary is being selfish yes. But people are allowed to be as selfish as they like.

I come from a family of boundary bullies and I don’t care if they think I’m selfish.

Boundaries keep people safe

And it also works the other way around. I've always been very flexible with arrangements, putting myself out so that the majority can benefit. A certain relative has suddenly decided to have absolutely rigid boundaries, for no discernible reason - they have never, ever been a people pleaser, ever. No one has walked all over them, ever. I
The most recent development has irritated me so much, that I am mirroring the behaviour, and have become far less flexible than ever before (in this one relationship). Haven't seen them for months, as a result. I'm not bothered but I know that they are. It's very odd behaviour!

There is nothing wrong with having healthy boundaries. IMO though, this is the language of tiresome and difficult people irl.

It’s much more nuanced than how you describe

IME when someone gets to the point of having to announce they are setting boundaries it is usually because the person they are telling tramples all over them.

So I have a relative who thinks she can use our home as a Travelodge, regularly inviting herself to stay, without considering if it’s convenient or not. Would boundaries make me selfish, even though her selfishness is the root of the problem?

I dont know about selfish but I have two friends who "did a lot of work on themselves" and who have actually become quite defensive and unpleasant to be around.
Like you might say "What! How can you not like Quavers!" and instead of them understanding that you're just saying that to express how much you DO like them, they'll go: "I'm allowed to not like them".
🤣 And its like okay, someone's had a "speaking up for your values session" lately!