What could I have done differently? 15yr old no tea

[Oollliivviiaa]

My 15yr old is being vile to me recently. Everything is my fault and some days she will barely speak to me. Yesterday she was awful to me all day. I got a half hearted apology in the evening.

She has taken to moaning about everything we give her to eat. We've asked her what she wants and within reason try to accommodate it (recognising that others have to eat it, time constraints etc). However she just says "I dunno" if we ask her so Ive started just cooking. That always end up with "ugh I dont want it". Tonight I started cooking and she demanded to know what I was cooking. She likes it but if I told her, she would have moaned and I just cant be bothered so I said "it'll be done soon, can you set the table please". She started moaning so I said "it doesnt matter what it is because you'll moan that you dont like it anyway". Not the most helpful comment I know.

Anyway she stormed off to her room because of that comment and has decided shes not going to eat tea (she still doesn't even know what it is!). Her dad went up to tell her it was done and she refused to come down. Ive gone up just to say that if she doesnt eat it, there wont be anything else until breakfast and if she doesn't eat it tonight, it will be reheated for tomorrow's tea. (It reheats well so Im not serving her anything horrible). I wasnt being confrontational or anything like that. She made a sarcastic comment so I just walked away.

She's not come down so I guess shes not having tea.

Its just All. The. Time. It is constant. I am worn out and as awful as it sounds, Im struggling to care that she hasn't had tea (she had a big dinner, she wont starve).

FYI - she refuses to help. Sometimes she wont even stay in the same room as me.

Her dad / my husband is of no use and just sits on the fence. I dont feel like he ever has my back. Yes, that's a husband problem etc etc.

So, how could I have stopped this? What could I have done differently?

Before anyone suggests it, her cooking her own food isnt an option for a myriad of reasons and would actually cause more problems than it solves. Plus, its not really relevant anyway.

Very typical teenage behaviour, it's hard to picture at the moment but she will come back to you, it won't always be like this. I can remember being about 15/16 and hating everything my parents did, they couldn't do right for doing wrong. I'm now mid 30s and very close to my parents and we do laugh about how awful I was. I still can't quite explain why I felt like that.

It sounds as though it’s not really about the food. For reasons of her own, she gets something out of arguing with you. The fact that it’s sometimes 40 minutes of moaning means that, on some level, she’s getting something out of it. She’s letting off steam. She’s arguing for the sake of arguing because it’s like scratching an itch.
The only thing you can control is your reaction to her. You have to stop showing your irritation.
” I don’t like that dinner.” - “Well that’s what I’m cooking, you can decide if you eat it or whether you’d rather grab an apple and some cereal”
”You haven’t washed my jeans”. “Oh you should have said, I could have got those ready for you if I’d known”.
You’ve got stuck in a fight you can’t win because you’re trying to reason with the unreasonable, and that’s impossible. And she’s not that interested in what you’ve got to say, she’s taking her teenage frustrations out on you because you’re her mum and it’s safe because you’ll love her whatever. You’ve got to let it wash over you. If she’s driving you nuts, try to derive some quiet satisfaction from not giving her what she wants- which is really an argument, not a different dinner.

15 year old is old enough to own tea. If she doesn’t like what you make she can sort her own.

I cant help wondering how much of this advice is "Well when I have teenagers I will....." compared to people who have actually parented them.

Its so easy to say what you would do in a given situation that isnt happening to you or that you havent experienced. Its like the perfect parents we all know....you know, the ones who dont actually have kids! And no I am not suggesting that no one here has lived through the teen years as a parent, but I would be interested to know who is advocating the tough love approach compared to those that arent and the age of their respective kids!

I had my eldest young, I was 17. Was very smug that I would be the perfect parent of a teen because I was closer in age to him than most of his friends parents. We would understand each other, get on, have fun, no tantrums. Hah! How little I knew!

Sometimes kids do needs us to listen more and ask more and talk more. And some are just arseholes who need to get that out of their systems. Youngest DS (now 19) was like that. I posted a lot of threads about him at the time, issues with school etc he called the police on me once because he called me a vile vile name infront of his (at the time 10 yrs) sister and I slapped him. No I shouldnt have slapped him but it was momentary loss of control after 2 years of this shit. The police gave him the biggest bollocking of his life and social services (had been informed by the police) were fine with me, but insisted on seeing him on a weekly basis with his year head. DS was fuming, but admitted that he brought it in himself. He is now fine, if we gloss over the fact that he has totally bought into the trans bollocks. Point is that sometimes there is no underlying issue or ND or trauma. Some kids just really do become "Kevin the Teenager" for a few years and then almost overnight, they are not anymore. You just have to ride out the fact that whatever you do, it will be wrong.

Like cutted up pear, it will always be wrong.

Like I said earlier, this was me. It all improved dramatically at 16, when I started going to nightclubs, then again when I got a boyfriend and was barely at home.
No therapy needed; no parenting issues... just the age old problem of teenagers growing up and feeling stifled by their crap, old parents, who know nothing, but are stuck at home unity gcses/A levels sorted. My grandad and my dad both left home at 15 for apprenticeships. I bet they never behaved like i did. But they did get into fights. I chose to work at school, but take everything out on my parents. What did I actually want?

• all A*s with minimal effort
• to pull a variety of sexy men
• thinner thighs
• not to have to wear glasses
• to be shorter and sexier
• to live in a better town
• to have cooler parents
• to live by myself

Most of the above was sorted by 18.i was just impatient.
As an adult, I get that they were doing what they could. Just like I do with my dc. My dc don't rebel or snarl or push boundaries.... and that worries me! Where's their spark? Their fight?

Oh, and there is no way. No way in hell I'd have opened up to my parents. That's just not me. You get what i want you to get. I'll deal with the rest in my own way. Just like it's not my dc.

De-escalate things!

what’s for dinner? X

I don’t want x! Ok, there’s bread and beans in the cupboard you can help yourself to. Do you want to heat that up and come sit with us?

no!

ok, it’s there if you change your mind

put the extra portion she’s not eating in Tupperware, then she can have it later or tomorrow, don’t mention it again. You can have if for lunch.

then before the shop ask if there’s anything in particular she wants.

or leave a piece of paper on the fridge she can add to at any time / have a shared note

WhatsApp her a recipe and see if she’d like to try it one day

currently it’s a power struggle, de escalate and it will become a lot less heated over time

I completely agree with this. And I don’t buy into the “they can cook themselves something else” thing either: if someone has cooked a meal for you, it’s pretty basic courtesy to eat it. I take my teens’ preferences into account when deciding what we will eat, so so it’s not a control thing (and if I know one person isn’t keen on an element of a meal, I probably will also cook an alternative. But I’d expect it to be eaten!). Honestly - I wouldn’t feed the drama. Cook food you’re reasonably sure she likes or at least doesn’t object to. If she doesn’t eat it, leave her to it. She’ll soon be hungry and realise it’s an ineffective protest.

I have a theory about that. The last few generations have all pushed back against the previous generations in a way that hadnt really happened pre-war (WWII). The boomers were massively different....hippies, drugs, mods and rockers, mini skirts, alt rock, punk etc. Then Gen X, all under age boozing and smoking, clubbing, Ibiza etc.

The generations since have literally nothing they can do that we havent already done. So they rebel by being sensible. By being the kids our parents wanted us to be! There are more none drinkers in the 18 - 35 age group than ever before for example.

My theory is that they are rebelling by not (by our standard) rebelling!

I had to go back and read your username there because you just sound exactly the same as my mother in-law. Not in a bad way, but full of good advice. ❤️

I think AIAgent's post 21.44 is a good one - sit her down and explain that her words and behaviour hurt you, and that you are upset and baffled as to why she treats you like this (I mean obvs the most likely reason is she's a hormone bomb and you are her Mum but still!) - Not to blame her but to address in an adult way "why are you like this towards me now?" And ask if she feels behaviour like that is OK towards another person, would she be OK if someone was like that towards her etc. Bring her into a discussion about her own behaviour rather than just saying "don't behave like that!"

The generations since have literally nothing they can do that we havent already done.

In your dreams.

Wait til yours tells you she's nonbinary and wants to change her name get her boobs cut off and neck testosterone. Oh, and you can call her they/them from now on.

Then you can tell me that's sensible and your generation did it too.

Sorry for the derail - but I do find the idea that each generation can't find new and unexpected ways to piss their parents off quite funny!

This is game play, and she’s playing you like a fiddle.
DD, “What’s for tea”?
OP, “Lasagne”
DD, I don’t like Lasagne, I’m not eating it.
OP, “OK”

End of conversation, don’t plate it up, don’t serve it for breakfast, don’t argue (because she sure as hell wants conflict). Don’t follow her to her room when she stomps off to placate or argue.
Her next step will be guilt inducing statements, probably the next day after storming to her room and wondering why you haven’t followed her up with the usual conversation of getting it for breakfast etc.

She wants to be in control, and she wants attention, make sure you only give attention for good behaviour. Rude, disrespectful and insolent behaviour deserves no response at all… not even a sigh!

She has lots more going on in her life than meal times. She has a whole day, every day, that you aren’t there for. Is she having friendship problems? Boyfriend problems? Girlfriend problems? Is she questioning her sexuality? Is she about to lose her virginity? Is she with a boyfriend she thought she liked but doesn’t really like but is too awkward to break up with? Does she have an unrequited crush? Is she being impacted by the perfectionism shoved in her face from social media? Is she worried about being too tall, too short, too skinny, too fat, too this, too that? Are all her friends going out somewhere she’s not allowed? Are all her friends doing something she doesn’t want to do but feels pressured to do? Does she have anxiety? Does she have exam anxiety? Is she struggling at school? Is there a teacher picking on her? Is she neurodivergent? Is she lonely? Is she angry? Is she tired? Like all these things and more are possible and her energy is flying out at you. Because you are the person she loves. She definitely feels a lack of control somewhere - it might not have anything to do with you (or food, or laundry, or homework or whatever) but she’s directing it at you. So your folder of food, while it sounds like a good and supportive idea, is actually just putting a demand on her which she is then refusing to engage with. Same with counselling. To a teenager, that’s akin to saying “you’re crazy, I’m going to force you into sitting in a room with a judgemental old man who is going to feed back to me everything you say”. If you’re going to get her therapy, try not asking her, just book it in and make her go to one session that’s it - just one. Or yoga or something like rock climbing - what’s her hobby? Is there anything to do with that she could do?

And btw what words are she actually using when she tries to exert control over a situation?

also, could you try doing a buffet style thing - maybe even just do a different time, watch a film at the same - take away control from the whole situation. Just make up a bunch of bowls with peas, chicken, pasta, berries, craps/tacos, etc etc, earlier in the day then pop it all out on the table and let everyone help themselves.

I also totally get saying well you can make a meal once a week if you don’t like my stuff etc but to be honest it’s also horrible when someone forces you to make a meal - like you’re some kind of zoo animal being watched. The pressure to make a meal once a week just puts all eyes on her. That’s why she’s not doing it. It’s ‘dance monkey’. And if she doesn’t know how to cook, you should send her on a cooking course for a week. It’s no good telling someone to cook who doesn’t know how, then standing there impatiently while they fuck it up. It’s like you’re setting them up to fail.

long one sorry.
and totally feel you - kids are so hard and hurtful. Who knows what’s right really-we all just struggle along doing our best and you’re here asking for help and that shows you’re really trying so I think that’s great

This post says it all.OP. Many posters instinctively knew this is a girl who refuses to communicate what the real issues are. I hope someone more qualified than me can help with how you can get her to open up without reverting to counselling if she is point blank refusing to go. I'm sure given the amount of care you obviously shower on her you will both get through this phase. I wish you all the best.

Actually, my own DD has done just that. But she is growing her hair out and wears very girly clothing, her "new" name is a girls name too so I am waiting that one out.

The DS I mentioned earlier came down at about 16 dressed as a (very stereotypical 80's streetwalker) woman. I suggested different tights with the skirt. He stomped off back upstairs and it never happened again.....they were fishnets ffs!

ETA obviously I am very aware of the trans thing, but I didnt want to turn this into a trans row. Out of my 6 only one has kicked off big style about it, 4 think its stupid and the last one wont say anything as he is at uni and doesnt want to be seen to be a transphobe. Suspect he will come out of it when he leaves.

Not being funny but it’s really not ‘typical’ for a boy who is happy in themselves to dress in this way randomly. Like shrugging it off might have forced the genie back in the bottle but it’s still in there somewhere - and I don’t mean he is “trans”, just that he clearly has unhappiness with himself to be so desperately trying to be different that he’d risk standing out in this way.

I don't think this really is about food, it's about power and autonomy.

I'd let her know in advance what meals are planned and let her cook alternatives (outside the time you're using the kitchen) if she prefers.

My guess is she'll eat more when the pressure reduces.

I have a glass half empty child. It is tiring. Sometime I let it go, sometimes I try and change the subject, sometimes I get cross. Getting cross happens after they have pointed out the negative in every conversation for close to 1 hour solid (school run). “It lovely and sunny” “it’s too hot and I hate it” . I saw Bob has a nice new haircut” “ yes but bobs is mean to everyone” I bought some new crisps (without specifying what) “I don’t like them” .
Lately I have explained how draining it is when somebody moans all the time and asked them how they feel in the company of someone who moans or is negative about everything. Followed up with a list of shit things that happened in my day but explained I don’t usually share the whole lot - because I would rather talk about good things with my family and set my work stress to one side, unless something has REALLY upset me. Seems to be working a little bit. Difficult balance of letting them express how they feel with just unreasonable and bloodey boring constant negativity about v v small things.

Jesus when I grew up in the 70’s you had no choice, there was no kids food everyone ate the same

This. Stop either placating or battling. She has what you’ve cooked or she doesn’t, her choice. Don’t give her alternatives, don’t battle.

Tell her tomorrow that you will be cooking whatever you are cooking for dinner. If she doesn’t want it, she doesn’t have to eat it. Then don’t discuss it again. If she wants to flounce about, let her.

Id also have a completely separate conversation with her when everything is calm. Maybe take her out on her own someone you can talk, and check in with her whether something is going on that’s causing this behaviour. Is there something bigger she’s upset about? Or is it “just” hormones in which case you can talk to her about healthier ways to let out her frustrations. And that it’s not ok to take it out on the people around you - how would she feel if you/her siblings etc were doing that to her? And keep talking to her about it. She probably has lots of big feelings at the moment and, like toddlers, it’s hard for teens to know what to do with them. They need guidance, and even if they don’t always hear it, they still need to know you are there for them.

she Sounds like a chewy teenager. She eats or she is hungry…she will sharpish learn. She isn’t going to starve because she skipped a meal, don’t give in on her strops, just don’t engage, and continue to be available to her if she needs to talk (just in case there is something else going on)

We did drive our parents insane I’m sure, but I’d NEVER have dared complain clothes weren’t washed because I wanted them for something I hadn’t even told my parents about!!

There could be context though.

I'm a school safeguarding lead. I had a teenager telling me about an argument she had with Mum a few weeks ago. It centred around her washing not being done.

Like you, I'd structured my responcd around making thr child understand her own responsibilities in getting her washing done and that it wasn't all on Mum.

But, when we got under the surface, turned out this 15yo only owned one bra. It was so sweaty it was wet so after school gave it to Mum and asked if it could go in with tonight's load. Mum forgot. The following day teen school refused because of this, but Mum, at risk of an attendance fine, made her go to school in the sweaty bra. And so the argument.

The issue here was Mum needed asking if financial support was needed because a teen only owning 1 bra had an impact. It wasn't really about the washing, it was about the context of the situation.

Wow….

Yes, sorry it was a derail. I'm glad your kids are growing past it unharmed, many teens do though not all. There's the element of individuation, separating yourself from your caring parents which is a very normal thing and kids can do that in an old-fashioned way or come up with something modern and trendy. And yesm the OP's DD is doing something that is pretty conventional and has been for a long time.

Anyway back to the OP: I know that telling DD to cook wont make life easier for you. Quite the opposite, I'm sure it makes life harder especially with a small kitchen and a busy lifetsyle. Like having a two year old help you tidy up. But getting her own food and cooking for herself and for others is a step towards independence and responsibility, it's a confidence builder and a life skill and a social skill. DD needs that. She can't stay a child forever. Maybe you can balance the time / effort / money you're spending to give her independence with the time you're spending on indulging her hobby?

I did wonder how does she get along with other kids her own age? Does she have a social life?