What could I have done differently? 15yr old no tea

[Oollliivviiaa]

My 15yr old is being vile to me recently. Everything is my fault and some days she will barely speak to me. Yesterday she was awful to me all day. I got a half hearted apology in the evening.

She has taken to moaning about everything we give her to eat. We've asked her what she wants and within reason try to accommodate it (recognising that others have to eat it, time constraints etc). However she just says "I dunno" if we ask her so Ive started just cooking. That always end up with "ugh I dont want it". Tonight I started cooking and she demanded to know what I was cooking. She likes it but if I told her, she would have moaned and I just cant be bothered so I said "it'll be done soon, can you set the table please". She started moaning so I said "it doesnt matter what it is because you'll moan that you dont like it anyway". Not the most helpful comment I know.

Anyway she stormed off to her room because of that comment and has decided shes not going to eat tea (she still doesn't even know what it is!). Her dad went up to tell her it was done and she refused to come down. Ive gone up just to say that if she doesnt eat it, there wont be anything else until breakfast and if she doesn't eat it tonight, it will be reheated for tomorrow's tea. (It reheats well so Im not serving her anything horrible). I wasnt being confrontational or anything like that. She made a sarcastic comment so I just walked away.

She's not come down so I guess shes not having tea.

Its just All. The. Time. It is constant. I am worn out and as awful as it sounds, Im struggling to care that she hasn't had tea (she had a big dinner, she wont starve).

FYI - she refuses to help. Sometimes she wont even stay in the same room as me.

Her dad / my husband is of no use and just sits on the fence. I dont feel like he ever has my back. Yes, that's a husband problem etc etc.

So, how could I have stopped this? What could I have done differently?

Before anyone suggests it, her cooking her own food isnt an option for a myriad of reasons and would actually cause more problems than it solves. Plus, its not really relevant anyway.

Op understand she is now that teenager, grumpy/ moody/, you won't win,
I too learnt this, the advice I got was , stand back watch from the shadows,
I cooked said meals for family if she didn't want like it, she makes herself a sandwich that's it, no tension or stress from me,
Basically don't add to her mad moods, all most grey rock for your own sanity,

Boundaries in place, keep room tidy, bring washing down, dad may have to step in for that tho,
This time will pass and hopefully your daughter will become the kind ,nice respectful loving adult , and she will op, just ride this wave of adolescence in the background,

Food is such a trigger. My mum used to make me clear my plate, wouldn't take my preferences into account, so it became our personal battle ground until she realised (or more likely someone told her) she couldn't win and she stopped.

And this is the thing - you are unlikely to win. Kids have all the time and motivation in the world to keep battles like this up.

She isn't going to suddenly do what you want so you need to be the one to change something.

My daughter has PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance Syndrome) which means that the demands of sitting down to a family meal are completely beyond her ability to cope with. It's autistic spectrum. Forcing her would have been absolutely futile. I'm not suggesting your daughter has PDA but mentioning to show that behaviour like this is not necessarily spoiled brat behaviour that needs punishment.

I drove my parent completely insane.

in fact I sound very similar to the o/p’s dd. Used food and mealtimes as control- ending in anorexia at 17 when my parent took the “ignore it” approach. Was stroppy and vile.

However the “not overthinking” and the assumption that it was hormones, or a phase, or just that age, meant the fairly severe ptsd I was experiencing from a traumatic event went unrecognised and untreated, even by myself.

in fact it meant I honestly believed the way I was acting was just me being a little shit, as what did I have do complain about. I was fed, clean and warm and had a relatively comfortable life. I listened to adults and them saying children are resilient and genuinely believed I should be over it and it was nothing to do with my current behaviour.

that has carried with me to adulthood. While I have never, and will never address it, I make sure I never dismiss my children when they are upset, and always treat them like they do have a reason, even if they can’t articulate it. I try to make sure I do take it seriously, never tell them they’re “silly” feeling a certain way or any of the other stock phrases.

It's very normal and developmentally appropriate for teenagers to push boundaries, and be a bit stroppy, moany and confrontational at this age.
Hold the boundary you've agreed on (which seems to be that you won't make another meal if she moans, totally fine), and don't feed into an argument.

Have you tried meal planning in advance? Have a whole family sit down meeting, where you plan the weeks food shop (and discuss any upcoming events, issues etc), and do the meal plan there, then put it up somewhere everyone can see it. Let her suggest new recipes and include them in your plan. Then the chance to raise issues or have a moan is at the meeting, not whilst the cooking is happening - if you're making something she doesn't like, what are her options? lay them out clearly (whether it's she can make herself toast, there'll be a couple of frozen ready meals, or that she eats yesterday's leftovers instead). Personally, I'd be saying she has to sit at the table until the meal is finished, whether she's eating it or not, but that probably wouldn't be everyone's approach, which is fine. If she gets stroppy, just say, "This is what's on the meal plan. The chance to raise issues was at the family meeting. *The other option". And don't feed into an argument or trying to reason with her.
You could also have one night a week where she cooks (It may be inconvenient for you, but it's a life skills, and she does need to learn, even if it means you all eat a bit later than normal - set her off, and then get out the way if your kitchen is small!), or a YOYO night (you're on your own), where everyone sorts themselves out,

This is about safe spaces... she feels safe with you so can let out whatever to you.

I get it - mine is toward the end of her exams and is exhausted.. so am I from all she throws at me. But we have 2 days to go.... then what? Who knows....

My DD used to moan about what I cooked. I said, very calmly 'oh, so sorry I'm doing such a bad job, I'll stop doing it. I'm sure you'll be better at it.' That solved the problem pretty quickly.

There is no way I'm cooking for someone who moans about the food. No way. It's fine to have preferences, but complaining about someone else doing work on your behalf is incredibly rude and I won't tolerate it. DH has a nice habit of thanking me for cooking, which the children see and sometimes emulate. It's nice and I do the same for him.

Also, side note, why are you washing a 15 year old's clothes? My two never moan about something not being washed because their clothes are not my problem - if they want something washed, they wash it.

My DS (14) got into a funk of talking to me like shit, so I told him it hurt my feelings and he seemed to get the message. Sometimes when he responds in a snappy way, I'll reply with what he could have said. It doesn't always work, but it reminds him I'm a person who deserves to be treated kindly, no matter how annoying I am.

Teens do struggle and I am very sympathetic but they should not learn that they can take their feelings out on other people. They need to use their words. I know it sounds silly but at times, when DS has been freaking out, I've said 'I feel angry' to him and got him to repeat it. It's suprisingly effective.

DD is now aware of her hangry tendencies and deals with it. She can still be a right pain in the arse but we laugh it off rather than making it into a big deal.

Teenage girls have very little control in their lives. One of the things they can control is the food their eat or don't eat. Food can become a power struggle. It's the same with toddlers....
Just don't make it a big deal - you don't want her to start using food as a control thing.

Well as this was nearly 4 years ago, he is absolutely fine and admits himself that he was just trying to shock me to prove a point, although he cant remember what the point was, I disagree.

WTF.

She doesn't like the dinner you make, she can make herself a sandwich or eat a piece of fruit or do without.

She should be doing laundry at 15, not leaving clothes and expecting you to read her mind.

If she's rude, you don't do her favours. Don't wash her clothes, don't be her chauffeur, none of that. It stops now until she has an attitude adjustment.

She cant do her own laundry because it would be a nightmare for me.

Without sounding overly dramatic, laundry is such a faff and has to be planned. We dont have a tumble drier or an indoor space to dry things and live in the lakes so no outdoor drying either. This means that unless it is planned, we end up with wet clothes all over the house, hanging on door frames and the like and nothing dry to wear.

She wont do her laundry in a way that would fit in with the rest of the laundry. So no, I have enough work with the laundry routine without getting her involved. Ideally yes she should but no, it would make way more work for me and I already find it hard enough.

I dont need any laundry tips.

Take her phone off her an hour before tea. Give it back to her once she’s eaten and politely spent the meal time with her family. If she doesn’t - keep the phone til breakfast!

Terrible idea. She’s no longer a child and treating her like one would be completely counterproductive.

This attitude is going to completely undermine your daughter's confidence and her ability to be independent in the long term. Is your love of control so great that it overrides your daughter's needs?

I never understand people who say kids should do their own laundry either @Oollliivviiaa. We don’t have your issues but I also don’t want individual members of the family just doing their own laundry - what a waste of water and energy!

I never once did my own laundry while living at home. I was perfectly capable of doing it when I was at uni, however. All the family’s laundry was done together.

'Ive gone up just to say that if she doesnt eat it, there wont be anything else until breakfast and if she doesn't eat it tonight, it will be reheated for tomorrow's tea.'

Are you posting from the 1980s? She sounds like a nightmare but you shouldn't do that. Also 'tea'? Just ugh all round.

It's the fact that the op is adamant that her daughter is incapable of doing anything for herself is the issue.

This probably won't help as you've already said that it's not an option for her to cook her own, but fwiw: my late DH and I had this problem with my 14-year-old DS. We set up a system that said twice a week, he made tea, but he could cook what he wanted and I'd get the ingredients.

For a couple of years, every Monday and Thursday, we had pizza (he made his own, including the pizza base - his choice) and chocolate pancakes (again made from scratch) with ice-cream (bought). But he started eating the food other people cooked for him.

He'd always been a picky eater, but he started getting interested in food after this.

An unexpected benefit - when he was briefly unemployed in his early 20s, he used to cook for his mates. They couldn't boil water, but he had a decent repetoire by this time. They bought the food, he cooked it.

My sister is 25 and has just moved out of my parents (has been back temporarily whilst waiting to buy a new house). My parents have a tumble dryer, and outdoor space to dry clothes in summer. They still do a joint effort on all the washing (and mine, if I'm staying), as it doesn't make sense for everyone to run half-loads, or to have mixed colours when there's a full load of each.
Makes so much more sense to do a combined effort, but at 15, the child could be doing a load of washing when mum asks, from being toddlers we got involved in sorting the washing into loads, helping put the clothes into the washer, pushing the buttons, and by 15 could definitely do a load, but it would have everyone's clothes in.

It doesn't sound like this child is being asked to do any chores, or being given much control or responsibility over anything at home. Realistically she'll only learn if she gets chances to do things, even if it's inconvenient. Putting her own stuff away, doing the family washing or cooking, (even at the cost of clothes drying over doors, or dinner being late), would be reasonably easy ways to do this.
I think she needs to be given some responsibility and the chance to do some of the things she's moaning about you doing, so she learns how to do it, but also realises how difficult it is to keep everyone happy.

What’s the problem with tea?

Could she be manufacturing arguments to skip meals because she's hiding an eating disorder?

Nothing to do with control. It is simply not practical. I am not making my life 100 times more difficult so she can wash her own trousers. Its not all about working around her. If she would be willing to work within the "rota", fine but she wont.

I would love to be able to look at the washing basket and say, you know what Ill leave it until tomorrow but I cant. Literally, I have to time it so that it all fits on the drying racks and when it should dry. That is not controlling. When we come back of holidays it takes over a week of having clothes hanging everywhere to get everything dry and in the meantime the house smells like a laundrette.

She simply will not acknowledge that she will need to do her laundry on a Tuesday or whatever. It wont happen. So there is nothing controlling about expecting her to work around others as much as we work around her.

'Tis frightfully common dontcha know, lovey? Dont tell her highness that we use the word "toilet" too or it'll give her a near on heart attack.

Depending on which part of the country you live, it's tea time, or dinner time, really doesn't matter, evening meal is what op is referring too, but honestly let's not get picky,

Am a tea type of person

But you're not even willing to relax this 'rota' a bit in order to show her the ropes 😅
That's controlling