What could I have done differently? 15yr old no tea

[Oollliivviiaa]

My 15yr old is being vile to me recently. Everything is my fault and some days she will barely speak to me. Yesterday she was awful to me all day. I got a half hearted apology in the evening.

She has taken to moaning about everything we give her to eat. We've asked her what she wants and within reason try to accommodate it (recognising that others have to eat it, time constraints etc). However she just says "I dunno" if we ask her so Ive started just cooking. That always end up with "ugh I dont want it". Tonight I started cooking and she demanded to know what I was cooking. She likes it but if I told her, she would have moaned and I just cant be bothered so I said "it'll be done soon, can you set the table please". She started moaning so I said "it doesnt matter what it is because you'll moan that you dont like it anyway". Not the most helpful comment I know.

Anyway she stormed off to her room because of that comment and has decided shes not going to eat tea (she still doesn't even know what it is!). Her dad went up to tell her it was done and she refused to come down. Ive gone up just to say that if she doesnt eat it, there wont be anything else until breakfast and if she doesn't eat it tonight, it will be reheated for tomorrow's tea. (It reheats well so Im not serving her anything horrible). I wasnt being confrontational or anything like that. She made a sarcastic comment so I just walked away.

She's not come down so I guess shes not having tea.

Its just All. The. Time. It is constant. I am worn out and as awful as it sounds, Im struggling to care that she hasn't had tea (she had a big dinner, she wont starve).

FYI - she refuses to help. Sometimes she wont even stay in the same room as me.

Her dad / my husband is of no use and just sits on the fence. I dont feel like he ever has my back. Yes, that's a husband problem etc etc.

So, how could I have stopped this? What could I have done differently?

Before anyone suggests it, her cooking her own food isnt an option for a myriad of reasons and would actually cause more problems than it solves. Plus, its not really relevant anyway.

I was like this as a teenager and well into my 20s. Only towards my mother. I didn’t want to be like it, I had no idea why I acted like it, but I just couldn’t make myself change - it was beyond frustrating.
I had a chance encounter with a woman in her 50s, who told me about a colleague who was an absolute bitch but who had started taking Evening Primrose Oil and it had altered her personality, turned her lovely.
I was straight on Amazon. Within a week I was genuinely so, so much nicer towards my Mum. It might have been placebo - or maybe it just gave me the excuse to change my behaviour - but honestly it worked and I believe it altered my hormones. It was a miracle cure for me.
It’s just a supplement, what’s the worst that can happen? Teenagers love a supplement. Get her some Evening Primrose Oil. Get yourself on it too.

Just wanted to let you know I get it, and I sympathise. This all sounds very similar to my daughter (not so much the meals although she does definitely moan she doesn't like stuff quite often) but just the attitude in general.

I know you weren't focusing on the laundry issue specifically but is there another solution to that you can explore? Is there the option of getting a tumble dryer? (though maybe not as I'm guessing you'd probably have got one already if that was the case).

I really feel for you. I've had this with my daughter for years, the way she talks to me at times is vile. The best advice I can give is be firmer. In one of your posts you mention how she was speaking to you like crap then straight after you gave her money. Don't do that. I'm not judging by the way, I'm guilty of the same myself. In the moment, you just want to do anything to keep the peace and I understand. But it doesn't help in the long run as they just learn that they can be disrespectful and abusive to you and still be rewarded for it.

I know this won't sound helpful but the biggest thing that's made a difference is time. My daughter is 17 now and it's gradually getting better. She still has meltdowns occasionally but they're definitely less often and I feel like we've grown closer the past few months. A couple of years ago I would have happily helped pack her bags to move out 😂teens are a whole different breed, it's really hard.

Is she an only child? I was/am and I remember feeling the pressure of the attention I was given. The intensity of all their love, interest and thoughts - it was overwhelming, suffocating and enraged me at the age of 15.

I just wanted them to ignore me and leave me alone!

It got easier when I was 16 and had more freedom. I was desperate for them to drop the reins by that point and tbh, I think they were glad to loosen them too.

No other advice other than we have a very good relationship now but I have been extremely firm in my boundaries and don’t tell them anything deeply personal. They tried to fix everything and I can no longer allow or stand for that.

If my DD is being vile, I block her phone. It seems to work!
If she is a healthy BMI, I’d just not bother trying for a few days. Don’t cook her tea, and then she’ll probably get stroppy about that. Or tell her to cook it herself.

Sounds like it’s become a repeated behaviour pattern, so if you react opposite to what she is expecting - then you’ll call her bluff hopefully!

I think a lot of these comments aren't quite harsh, teenagers are really hard work, you can't win. I'm sure you have conversations with her and at other times she won't have conversations with you. As another poster said hopefully they grow out of it, it's just hanging in in the meanwhile.

@EllieEllie25 I think that is very good advice. OP feeds the fire far too much.

This sounds a bit like me as a teenager. I struggled with mood swings and suddenly feeling angry. One minute I’d be fine, then the tiniest thing would just tip me over the edge and I’d be a grumpy bitch for hours on end. I never got like this out of the house or around others, unfortunately like you my mum bore the brunt of it. I knew I was being awful but felt like I couldn’t stop myself. I would take myself off to my room and sometimes I’d be sulking, but sometimes I would be in tears because I knew how terrible I was behaving and felt like such an awful person. Like someone else said, teenagers are just toddlers in bigger bodies. The ability to emotionally process and reason is still developing up until our early twenties.

Looking back, my mum dealt with it so well. She pretty much ignored the moods and carried on as normal with life around me. She would regularly announce she was popping to the shops (probably to scream in the car and have a breather, lol) but it also meant I was left alone for an hour to self-regulate (and to reflect on what an arse I was being!) without anyone being in my face. I was never punished apart from being told off a bit when being really grumpy, always shown a lot of love. But then my mum did say she was the same as a teenager so she got it.

You’ll be pleased to know I grew out of it. Ages 14-16 were definitely the worst. I do struggle with PMS as an adult though and I think this played a significant part in my teenage angst.

Wishing you both the best!

My teen is a bit like this, less of the attitude but I don't like, won't eat, nothing herei can eat.
I now refuse to do the big weekly food shop unless she's made a breakfast choice, 2 dinner choices and snack choices for the week ahead.
I can't be fucked with the arguments and bad feeling around food. I make larger quantities of the foods she does like so there's leftovers she can crack on with on other days if she doesn't want other meals I've cooked.

I used to get really annoyed but this feels workable and like I can ensure she's fed without a huge amount of faffing each day with the, what do you want, I dunno, oh I don't like that!

I don’t know why so many people say that teens are bound to be horrible. Ours never were, and nor were the many others I’ve known. In a lot of cases I suspect that they’ve been allowed to be rude and brattish for years.

As for dinners, unless you’ve made something you know they dislike, it should surely be a case (as a pp said) of like it or lump it - or make yourself a sandwich/toast/cereal.

Sorry but she sounds like a little shit and lots of teens are like that. I would stop engaging full stop and whenever she starts saying about not loving her, just tune out and ignore her. She’s trying to pick a fight so don’t give her the satisfaction.

Plate. Clingfilm. Fridge.

It’s called making choices, sometimes we have to learn the hard, hungry, way that it is better to be informed of all the facts before we make a bad choice and slam off into our bedrooms.

No healthy child ever starved because they had a tantrum.

I think the answer is
"Whats for tea?"
"Lasagne"
"Uggh I hate that"
"Oh dear, can you lay the table please"
"I want something else"
"No, it's lasagne or nothing. There is salad to go with"
"Uggh, I hate it and wont' eat it"
"Ok, can you lay the table please"
Flounce
Eats dinner and pops a portion in the fridge in case she reappears later and is hungry.

No need for a fight and no need to go upstairs if she flounces, just let her get on with it.

No, no autism diagnosis. I'm mentioning it really in the context of parenting techniques that work with girls who are not responding well to "normal" parenting advice. Several people have suggested autism to the OP though, particularly PDA. The thread seems to be divided into two groups: one which sees the daughter as being rude and ungrateful and the other which sees her as struggling due to eg autism, mental health issues.

To answer your question no you don't just leave them to act as they like and get what they want. You put more effort in to keeping them regulated, which might involve a bit more support than the average 15 year old needs. You understand when they are struggling and intervene with support, not punishment. It isn't easy to explain in a post.

But fact is, I know several girls who had breakdowns when they went to sixth form / uni due to undiagnosed autism and no one putting the necessary support in. I'm not saying that the OP's daughter is autistic but I am challenging the idea that if a yp is clearly struggling, the answer is more and more punishment. Because sometimes we cant get what we want no matter how we try. And some people do end up with young women whose masking skills have collapsed, who won't leave their rooms etc. And learning more about alternative techniques at 15 might have made a difference.

Reading things like this makes me realise that a) my parents got away so lightly with me; and b) I'm so glad I didn't have kids!

You say she speaks about her hobby with you OP. Do you drive to and from this? My SIL says she loves the time taking her kids to their hobbies as they always seem to open up to her more during the drive - something about sitting side by side and not being able to make eye contact just helps them get things off their chest.

I know it's an awful time, but it does remind me of some of the girls I went to school with. They've all come out the other side and have good relationships with their parents now. I think the teenage years are particularly hard on girls with rampant hormone and body changes plus all the social pressures nowadays. I know she's wanting to change school herself, but I'm sure, deep down, there's a lot of uncertainty there and wondering whether she's doing the right thing.

Good luck OP.

Why not try something radical? If she's so determined to move out at 16 try from the angle that you're teaching her.

Offer to teach her how to meal plan, shop and cook her favourite meals.

Let her learn how to manage her dirty laundry.

Encourage her to get a weekend job, I live in the lakes, everywhere is crying out for staff. Then teach her to save and budget.

Encourage her to.make her own way to scouts/friends/cinema if she doesn't already.

Treat her like the grown up she wants to be. Either she will thrive, or, she will soon realise that she's actually onto a good thing.

As for what you could have done differently in the first post, loads. You could have told her what was for tea. I would have also told her it would be ready at xxpm, and to come down then for.it. if she flounced off, let her. Then I would have given a shout, if she doesnt come down, stick it in the fridge.

Eventually she will realise that throwing her weight around isn't getting a reaction.

Teenagers are vile! I know! I was one!I remember telling my mum that she had it lucky as none of her kids took drugs/stayed out all night/got drunk regularly.

But of course it is also the little things!

No way was I ever fussy about food (wasn't allowed to be!) and anyway I loved mum's cooking!

However for some strange reason I would get really angry if my parents were in the same room as me. I think I got a bit paranoid. I thought they were boring and watched rubbish tv and got embarrassed that people might see me out shopping with my mum!

I was the tyhpical stay in my room and any time spent with my family was torture kind of kid!

I don't know if it is hormones, brain not completely developed??? I dunno. But I did come out the other side eventually!!

Of course I would do anything for time now with my parents even though I am 65!! They are both dead and I really miss them.

Why not get her involved in food shopping with you, encourage her to plan meals, set a menu for the week and to also get involved with cooking the evening meal with you? Most importantly, communicate with her, she’s your child not your enemy and at her age she is probably experiencing hormonal changes which make her feel like crap, think the world’s against her and she directs her reaction at you…….because you are closest to her. Trust me on this, I had two teenage daughters who behaved exactly like yours is.

I was similar. Mum tried to get me to help arpund the house and I wasn't having it. I was the only girl and a feminist to boot. However I missed doing cooking with my mum for most of the time, whereas my middle brother did that. However when I started doing home economics I got more interested in how mum prepared things and would proudly bring home what I had made except when I tripped in the plaground and my perfect jam pudding was ruined and also most of a rice pudding leaked into my bag!!

What about having a ‘Meal Plan’ for the week, stuck on the fridge.
Ask her for some ideas.
Suggest she cooks one night a week.
Don’t make too much of a fuss, It could lead to eating disorders.

This was me at 14. About food anyway. My mum's solution, which worked well, was to give me a budget each week and I just bought and cooked all my own meals.

It helped me budget and I taught myself to cook. Though admittedly there was a lot of pesto pasta consumed due to the budget getting swallowed up by fags and McDonald's!

But overall it solved the issue of parental clashes around food and eating. And gave me a life long love of cooking.

Absolute nonsense. The reason I’m not a picky eater is because of the very threat ‘if you don’t eat it tonight it will be on your plate tomorrow’

Left over reheated peas are gross. So I just ate them the first time around.

She is 15. She will not starve unless she has an ED which it sounds like she doesn’t.

OP what IS she eating?!

She doesn't like your teas (even when you know she does), she doesn't like school dinners, she refused some money to buy something and threw it on the floor.

Is she actually eating enough?

Also when she'd made a snack, why the big hooha about her washing her pots from it?

I'd be taking a huge step back. This is what's for tea. If you don't like it fair enough get a snack or sort yourself out. No drama or reaction.

Also: please don't be naiive about the boyfriend. Have you spoken to her about how to get contraception if she wants to?!

I hope her new school is a better fit for her, her current one doesn't sound very nice and that's bound to be affecting her.

Pocket money is a reward for pleasant behaviour.

Urgh.. to be honest this gives me the creeps, I think PAYING HER to be nice to you is just wrong on so many levels and it obviously isn't working.. especially when she knows she isn't being paid that gives her free reign to be awful to you. None of that is healthy OP, it's horrible.

With regards to the food, what actually happens? You say she moans constantly, what are you doing while she does that? It has obviously become a battle zone, so why not just sure tell her what it is then say in a non combative way "okay, if you don't want it, don't eat it", then put her portion in the freezer for another time, no drama, you are cooking anyway, so really it makes no odds if she eats it or not, what's happening now is you are not letting her 'win' and she is not letting you 'win' so you've both got yourself stuck in combat every mealtime.

Stop caring if she eats the tea or not! just say no problem, and ask her to either make herself something after you've finished cooking or make sure there's food available that she can quickly make without 'cooking'.

Try and stop taking it so personally if you can. She is an angry teen and you seem to be purposely butting heads with her over everything when there is no need.

Of course not, but it’s an explanation for what’s going on.

Behaviour is communication and the key is figuring out what is actually being communicated rather than reacting to surface behaviour.

I have two autistic DC and DS in particular has high needs. He used to explode when he got out of school when he was younger, hurting himself as well as me. Both unintentionally, he’d be mortified when he calmed down. It was like a fizzy bottle of pop exploding because the lid has finally been taken off.

Understanding that you are their safe person and that this isn’t actually about you allows you to step back and figure out what the real issue is, and remedy that. It’s not about being pleased that you’re the safe person - that kind of attitude would really miss the point….

Carrot and Stick- doesn't work. Stop it.

Put money in her account every month and she manages it. Its not a reward or punishment,

What child decides they are moving schools when they are settled, have mates, doing well? What child makes that decision, and who encouraged it? Why?There is something either you or your daughter isn't saying.

I will add to the chorus--I would suggest and ASD screening.