What could I have done differently? 15yr old no tea

[Oollliivviiaa]

My 15yr old is being vile to me recently. Everything is my fault and some days she will barely speak to me. Yesterday she was awful to me all day. I got a half hearted apology in the evening.

She has taken to moaning about everything we give her to eat. We've asked her what she wants and within reason try to accommodate it (recognising that others have to eat it, time constraints etc). However she just says "I dunno" if we ask her so Ive started just cooking. That always end up with "ugh I dont want it". Tonight I started cooking and she demanded to know what I was cooking. She likes it but if I told her, she would have moaned and I just cant be bothered so I said "it'll be done soon, can you set the table please". She started moaning so I said "it doesnt matter what it is because you'll moan that you dont like it anyway". Not the most helpful comment I know.

Anyway she stormed off to her room because of that comment and has decided shes not going to eat tea (she still doesn't even know what it is!). Her dad went up to tell her it was done and she refused to come down. Ive gone up just to say that if she doesnt eat it, there wont be anything else until breakfast and if she doesn't eat it tonight, it will be reheated for tomorrow's tea. (It reheats well so Im not serving her anything horrible). I wasnt being confrontational or anything like that. She made a sarcastic comment so I just walked away.

She's not come down so I guess shes not having tea.

Its just All. The. Time. It is constant. I am worn out and as awful as it sounds, Im struggling to care that she hasn't had tea (she had a big dinner, she wont starve).

FYI - she refuses to help. Sometimes she wont even stay in the same room as me.

Her dad / my husband is of no use and just sits on the fence. I dont feel like he ever has my back. Yes, that's a husband problem etc etc.

So, how could I have stopped this? What could I have done differently?

Before anyone suggests it, her cooking her own food isnt an option for a myriad of reasons and would actually cause more problems than it solves. Plus, its not really relevant anyway.

Ok - so please bear with me, it sounds like you are running a tight ship, a very very inflexible tight ship due to valid reasons but it does not allow her any space to grow or be a trial adult and yes get it wrong - very very wrong and learn.

I think you need to think about your parenting - what do you want her GCSEs A levels to look and feel like - she will be coming and going at all hours, hopefully get a job , parties and friends or sports and activities or whatever and you will have chaos which is frustrating - I hear you (mine are 20 and 18 so out the other side) - and think about how your systems can flex to another not quite adult in a very rigid house;

for example - dinner; does it matter if you eat at 7pm / 8pm if she cooks? What's the implication - in my house mine would I be hangrey and hideous so if you know tea is late - have a good snack post school

wet washing - again I hear you but let it build up a bit - so what?

what can you flex to allow her to grow into that space?

also - take a so what approach, she doesn't want dinner - why can't you just plate it up and let her microwave it when she's ready - let her have some control back and choice - let her cook

but don't pander to her or her choose, if she has AdHD and I'm guessing it's possible then choices are horrendous so cook dinner - once she likes and pop it in a Tupperware in the fridge - no conflict, she can have control and then you get a happily medium

anyway that's what I would have done if someone helped me a few years ago rather than going into battle over everything but it's up to you

good luck xx

I have a fussy one at that age too. I always ask if she wants what I'm cooking, if she says no then she's welcome to figure out her own meal. I don't always 'approve' of her meal choices but there is nothing to be gained by fighting over it.

Luckily she is mostly pleasant but on her moody days I leave her be, I definately wouldn't be running around trying to make her eat or giving ultimatums. Try not to control everything. You're right, she won't starve if she misses a few meals here and there. Try not to stress about it.

You say suggesting her cooking brings more problems but it's something that she will need to do sooner rather than later. I don't know your reasons. Mine have no concept of budgets/groceries and end up going through items without thinking twice and sometimes don't even eat what they have made because it hasn't turned out right. Their cooking experiments can be expensive. But it's a part of learning and growing up.

I have a fussy one at that age too. I always ask if she wants what I'm cooking, if she says no then she's welcome to figure out her own meal. I don't always 'approve' of her meal choices but there is nothing to be gained by fighting over it.

Luckily she is mostly pleasant but on her moody days I leave her be, I definately wouldn't be running around trying to make her eat or giving ultimatums. Try not to control everything. You're right, she won't starve if she misses a few meals here and there. Try not to stress about it.

You say suggesting her cooking brings more problems but it's something that she will need to do sooner rather than later. I don't know your reasons. Mine have no concept of budgets/groceries and end up going through items without thinking twice and sometimes don't even eat what they have made because it hasn't turned out right. Their cooking experiments can be expensive. But it's a part of learning and growing up.

I got accussed of this with the original post too.

Apart from the laundry which I have explained but even then we tried something else anyway which hasnt worked so will be going back to how it was.

And wanting her to eat, which again we have tried different things but she wont engage, I really dont see why people think Im this awful ogre who wants everything done my way or else.

The laundry BTW wasnt even an issue. I dont think I even mentioned it?

Someone used it as an example of how I should make her do things (whilst also not being controlling). I explained why it wasnt a possible however we still tried it and it hasn't worked.

And actually having piles of wet laundry everywhere in a tiny house IS a big deal. It ends up unmanageable, doesn't dry because its all squeezed up so it gets smelly and has to be rewashed plus having shirts dangling from doorframes or a house that is damp and smells like a laundrette is not nice for anyone.

@Oollliivviiaa you're not an ogre at all, there just seems to be a plethora of people on mn who seem to believe having any expectation of dc these days or not doing what they want when they want is abusive..
Sadly that's an ongoing Internet sensation so it's what these dc are reading and believing.

I didnt mention the laundry. I am much more thinking about removing the pocket money. And my advice is that consequences like this at this age are not going to work. She isn't learning and she is going to miss out on age appropriate experiences. She is possibly going to drift further away from you. I don't see what you are hoping to achieve here.

Pocket money is a privilege, not a right?
Do you think the dd should be rude and abusive to her mum, not do any chores,create mess she doesn't sort, and STILL be handed cash?! 😆😆

Tell her whats for dinner, ask her if she wants it, if she says no say "ok you can make yourself a sandwich/toast or something when you're hungry". Then leave her to it.

Cook and eat your dinner, let her have her sandwich/toast or go without.

Pocket money is a reward for pleasant behaviour. And the "pleasant behaviour" is a very low bar right now. We want her to earn it so things are pretty basic eg not screaming at us.

Its daily so that it is a visible, immediate, meamingful reward and it allows her to start afresh each day regardless of what happened yesterday.

It is given to her, it isnt taken from her.

She is on board with this. It isnt something that has been imposed on her.

Tbh if her behaviour has not met the absolute minimum (and is what we are talking about right now) then why should we pay for her to go to the cinema with her friends?

I know you have been brought up to believe in this kind of carrot and stick approach and you are firmly attached to it - it isn't working and still you stick to it and defend it. Any autism parenting course will suggest alternative ways to go. Building relationships, earning trust, opening up conversations, looking at expectations, examining your parenting style, prioritisation of issues, learning de-escalation techniques. But if you want to stick to the carrot and stick....I'm just suggesting the things that worked for me.

So if you have answered this already, but what is she like if somebody else is in the home? If her friend or an adult she respected was at home with you, and you asked her to eat or do the laundry etc, how would she behave?

I think what your dd is missing and what I hated about regimented meals when I was a teenager is that at 15 you’re old enough to want agency and control over your diet and eating times. There is nothing worse than being treated like a child and when you show any kind of frustration you’re doubly punished. I vowed to leave asap too.

That’s why by the time my kids were 15 they were all pretty much self sufficient in the kitchen.
We had a busy life with lots going on and extra curricula stuff so me and my DH would cook if people wanted what we were having, or they could just sort themselves out and just whack their stuff in the dishwasher.

Even if that was 11pm and they were making pasta, up chatting at the kitchen table, and we were heading to bed. As long as they cleaned up and had their kit ready for school there was no angst about it. We treated them like mini adults and left them to it. They loved that level of independence and trust so they never let us down.

Has op said there's a diagnosis? Apologies if missed!
However that approach seems to advocate the parents and rest of family acquiescing and having to say they're wrong and that the dd should never be challenged for her attitude and behaviour?

She is on board with this and wants to do it.

As Ive alreasy said, she wont cook.

That would drive me bonkers. My eldest is 14 and it’s the lack of manners that would do me in. If someone puts the effort in of cooking then in my house you say thank you, come to the table. I serve everything family style so you take what you fancy. If you don’t fancy something you can have the veg/ salad, a banana or toast type stuff. There is no rudeness about it though.

It’s a classic power struggle and really has nothing to do with eating. Remain calm when dealing with her; ignore the tantrums and let her cool down by herself. For example, when dinner’s ready, let her know but don’t insist she joins you. Ignore her bad behaviour unless she’s in danger, which is unlikely. This was my method with my teen DC and although it isn’t foolproof, it’s certainly more effective than engaging in a shouting match.

Have you given any thought to still going for some counselling, but without her? I feel like this could still be useful for you.

Also, I’m unsure of how the food issues are going, but if she doesn’t eat what you cook, I’d always have some other options. Just simple, toast/sandwich, soup (just a canned or microwave one) or cereal. It keeps it very simple and hopefully avoids some of the arguments.

Its difficult when they’re complaining about something the liked previously, whether that’s food or an activity, but you do have to be a bit grey rock about it and just let it go.

It sounds like the daily pocket money is working for you.

OP I'm currently thinking back to how I was at that age and I would have done exactly as I was told because I was scared of my mother.

The fact she feels she can moan is a good thing, even if it is exhausting for everyone in the house.

I can imagine her diary:

Dear Diary,

OMG you won't fucking believe it. All I did was ask what Mum was cooking and she said, can you believe this? She said, "It doesn't matter you will only moan about it".

How bloody rude?

I don't know what is going on with her recently, she insists on cooking a 'family meal' for us all. Well I'm old enough to not eat with the 'rents. What 15 year old has to sit at the table with them listening to their boring 'what I did today' story?

I'm quite capable of cooking my own food if she would let me. She always picks the thing I least like this week and makes that. OK so I loved shepherd's pie when I was a kid but I want something a bit more modern like a bubble tea with some sticky chicken wings.

So I have come up here where I can play on my phone (if she doesn't switch the wifi off) and ignore THEM. I'm not going down to eat whatever it is, probably another bloody shepherd's pie. Anyway I'm not going to eat today, that'll show her, she'll be so guilty that I'm hungry that she won't sleep tonight. Ha.

Sorry I can't give you much practical support. I agree teenagers are a lot like toddlers (teacher not a parent).

Just one thing, instead of just cooking something maybe ask her, "I'm cooking either A or B, which would you prefer?"

I want to say solidarity @Oollliivviiaa

All these perfect MN mums with their perfectly polite obedient children have no idea what it's like to have a DD who has been "determined" since their conception.

DD was absolutely vile age 7-17. I tried everything. Thankful I wasn't on MN much then, else I'd have felt condemned as well as trying to manage her behaviour.

Needless to say DD is now one of the loveliest adults you could meet. My friends can't believe how much they enjoy her company when they see her.

Stick with it in the trenches. The grind does lift and it does get easier.

I’m not sure about this approach with pocket money, @Oollliivviiaa (and it’s irrelevant that your DD is “on board” with it - she’s a child, she shouldn’t be making these decisions).

I would give her a basic amount every week that she gets regardless - whatever her behaviour, it’s part of her learning independence. And then she has the option of earning a top up through good behaviour. So say she gets £5 basic but can top that up to a maximum of £7. Or whatever amount you (you, not her) decide.

Hello @Oollliivviiaa you really are in the trenches with your daughter. She is obviously deeply unhappy but determined to blame you for whatever it is regardless. I have a couple of bits of advice (I’m no expert but I was a teacher for 15 years so spent a lot of time around teens).

1. if you haven’t already arrange a meeting with her form tutor and head of year. There may be more going on there than they are saying because she’s not as bad as other kids. They may think you have everything under control at home. It’s possible there is something happening at school that isn’t being shared with you.
2. get support for yourself, perhaps a parent support group where you can share your issues in a non-judgemental way (where no one goes in about the bloody laundry!!)
3. Stop the daily pocket money thing. Yiu are all walking around on egg shells all the time waiting for her to mess up. Set a basic amount and have opportunities for her to earn more. take the tension out of it.
4. ignoring the tantrums, the provoking behaviour, the sulking and stropping. SO. VERY. HARD. Pick your battles. What do you need her to do and what can you let go of?
5. If you can get her to access support on her own. Doesn’t have to be counselling but something like https://explore.kooth.com/emotional-wellbeing-and-wellness/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=kooth-uk-growth-areas-en-ggl%7Csrch-nb-wellness&utm_adgroup=158844309800&utm_term=emotional%20help&matchtype=p&device=m&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20843403085&gbraid=0AAAAAC2KQ4Pt10lYlp8AWm6H9gHQ--Z8T&gclid=CjwKCAjwg7PDBhBxEiwAf1CVuxQFW0FIh9DMpxuLdKosYCyfuJnrMEb7Vn0kpwmUAKADU-tBcU2mcRoCOg0QAvD_BwE

suggest it, move on. Maybe put the website on a post it on the fridge and say nothing.

there’s a lot going on here that is more than a teenager having a tantrum. I’m sorry things are so hard, but maybe the summer holidays will help things calm down

I can see it’s hard. But unless there’s eating disorderI think it’s just rudeness and disrespect and - dare I say it - spoilt entitldmdnt. Or maybe teenagers aren’t aware how lucky they are to havd food (Gaza?) and how lucky their parents earn enough for it to be not a constant worry.

From your description, it sounds like her bad behaviour attracts a lot of emotional energy and interaction from you, and that this is maybe feeding it. Like you’re providing the oxygen to keep this fire burning. So instead you could try acting less interested, so that her rudeness results in a boring lonely hungry evening, rather than in her controlling the actions and feelings of everyone else in the house.

Keeping a folder of her favourite meals, eating less yourself that evening than you would have normally, and repeatedly going up to her room to discuss the fact that she’s not eating, and planning / worrying about what will happen next, are all giving her a disproportionate amount of power in your household.

So next time she says yuk I’m not eating that, you could say ok, let her go upstairs, and then you carry on with the rest of your evening exactly as normal. Then she doesn’t get the drama and attention pay off she was hoping for, and will realise that the household doesn’t revolve around her and her whims, and that behaving pleasantly would result in a happier and more interesting life than behaving unpleasantly. I feel like emotionally you’re still reacting to her as if she was a fragile toddler who needs managing at all times. I get it, it’s hard to adjust as they grow. I often piss my teenager off when I treat him as younger than he really is.