What could I have done differently? 15yr old no tea

[Oollliivviiaa]

My 15yr old is being vile to me recently. Everything is my fault and some days she will barely speak to me. Yesterday she was awful to me all day. I got a half hearted apology in the evening.

She has taken to moaning about everything we give her to eat. We've asked her what she wants and within reason try to accommodate it (recognising that others have to eat it, time constraints etc). However she just says "I dunno" if we ask her so Ive started just cooking. That always end up with "ugh I dont want it". Tonight I started cooking and she demanded to know what I was cooking. She likes it but if I told her, she would have moaned and I just cant be bothered so I said "it'll be done soon, can you set the table please". She started moaning so I said "it doesnt matter what it is because you'll moan that you dont like it anyway". Not the most helpful comment I know.

Anyway she stormed off to her room because of that comment and has decided shes not going to eat tea (she still doesn't even know what it is!). Her dad went up to tell her it was done and she refused to come down. Ive gone up just to say that if she doesnt eat it, there wont be anything else until breakfast and if she doesn't eat it tonight, it will be reheated for tomorrow's tea. (It reheats well so Im not serving her anything horrible). I wasnt being confrontational or anything like that. She made a sarcastic comment so I just walked away.

She's not come down so I guess shes not having tea.

Its just All. The. Time. It is constant. I am worn out and as awful as it sounds, Im struggling to care that she hasn't had tea (she had a big dinner, she wont starve).

FYI - she refuses to help. Sometimes she wont even stay in the same room as me.

Her dad / my husband is of no use and just sits on the fence. I dont feel like he ever has my back. Yes, that's a husband problem etc etc.

So, how could I have stopped this? What could I have done differently?

Before anyone suggests it, her cooking her own food isnt an option for a myriad of reasons and would actually cause more problems than it solves. Plus, its not really relevant anyway.

@Oollliivviiaa She sounds like me when I was that age. Everything enraged me, it was like a red mist coming down and I'm sorry to say my mother bore the brunt. I made her cry on more than one occasion.

My mother dealt with it by refusing to engage and when I moaned about something, I was told that as I was so displeased, I could just get on and do x,y or z for myself. This resulted in me having to do all my own meals during the week, clothes and bedding laundry, cleaning etc. If I wanted pocket money, I had to do my chores. To give Mother her dues, she stuck to her guns no matter how grim things got. My room was referred to as 'The Pit'.

I did eventually grow out of it. Mother told me much later that she was very worried I'd gone off the rails, but that I'd actually turned out alright!

Im struggling to care that she hasn't had tea (she had a big dinner, she wont starve).

Don't struggle, this really is the best attitude to take.

I think she takes it all out on me.

Yep. I can't figure out if "home" is a very tightly run ship (for good reasons!) that she can't quite fit in to, or if she's wearing herself out up keeping up with the rest of the world and saving her evils for when she's "home" with you. Bit of both maybe. Bummer to live through but with luck it will improve as she matures if you can just stay sane!

I wasn't the easiest teenager and frankly leaving home improved my relationship with my parents no end. But it's hard to leave home and be independent before 18 (I left at 19 and it's only got harder since I was young) so that just sounds a bit immature and silly of her, she probably has no idea what leaving home means in reality. Does she ever spend time staying away from family - guide camp or similar?

Don’t be threatening with the ‘you’ll have it for breakfast, lunch, dinner etc until it’s eaten nonsense.

I would not mention it again. I’d make dinner, let her know either face to face that it’s ready or text her if she’s sulking/chilling upstairs, “Dinner’s ready 👍”. And leave it at that. She’ll come down or she won’t. Between the pair of you you've turned it into a battlefield, her with her constant complaining and you with your passive aggressive responses.

At 14/15 I can remember feeling my parents hated me; being confused by the world and hating school; feeling ugly and not fitting in. It was a very unhappy time.

At the moment you are probably reacting against each other and two forces butting heads is never going to work.

At her age it could be one of several things, or even nothing at all in particular but merely a kicking back against authority?

Hormones - are her outbursts cyclical?
Relationships - either her peer group or a love interest?
Sex?
Drugs?
Bullying?

If she has previously been okay, what has changed?

If you were minded, and as she won't engage in conversation, you could write her a letter. Apologise if you have been grumpy with her. Emphasise how much you love her. Reassure her that your love is unconditional. Tell her you can see that she is struggling just now. Tell her you are concerned for her and want only the best for her. Tell her you respect her privacy, but her behaviour is impacting on the family. Tell her if she wants to write a letter back, that's okay, if she wants to talk, you can go for a walk or talk away from home. If she doesn't want to talk, that is okay too, but something needs to change to make things more calm and liveable for everyone, and you want to support her in any way she needs to make life less of a challenge for her. Tell her you need her to help you with that.

Please buy yourself a dehumidifier, and put things outside to dry when you can, it will really help with your laundry situation.
Your daughter sounds like mine at that age, she is autistic, don't take it personally, you are her safe person, and let her eat whatever she wants for now, take the pressure off.

I’d put earbuds in and listen to my favourite music.

I moved out as soon as I could too. I literally didnt speak to my parents at all for over 6 months. My relationship with my parents has improved but it isnt good. I'm scared its history repeating itself. She doesnt know about things with my parents. We only see each other a few times a year so are all on our best behaviour.

We are not particularly tightly run. We are quite flexibke with most things. The laundry is just because we have to dry indoors so unless Im careful we end up with wet clothes hanging off all the doorframes, and having to use hairdriers on socks etc.

Im away with work tonight. I was going to go for a meal with them this evening but instead Im planning to hide in my room and just rest and not speak to anyone.

She stayed at a friend's last week. We would have cancelled it but they were doing a thing that needed a specific number of people so it didnt seem fair on them because if she didnt go they wouldntbhave been able to do this thing. She has also been away on a lot of scout camps recently. The most recent one, I did consider cancelling but we all just needed a break from each other.

We have 2 and we do hang outside when we can but we are in a very wet part of the country.

Your daughter sounds like mine at that age, she is autistic, don't take it personally, you are her safe person,

I never understand this view, is the safe person meant to feel honoured, happy or special to be so chosen? That someone who can be nice and polite to everyone else is aggressive and spits vitriol to them? "Gosh lucky me darling... I'm so proud that you feel comfortable enough with me to swear at me and abuse me! 😘'.... 🤨🙄

Can she not make her own stuff if she doesn’t want what you’re having ?

Doesn’t have to be fancy just store cupboard /basic ingredients- Omelette , cheese on toast, tuna pasta, ramen etc?

Hormones - it just seems constant right now
Relationships - same as anyone that age. Shes always had a lot of friends who are boys but obviously a lot of boys dont want friends who are girls at that age so she is struggling a little with that. A lot of the girls at her school are into make up etc which she isn't and she can be very judgemental over it. She has a little group of friends though.
Love interest - she has had a boyfriend for 8(?) months. He's nice and they laugh a lot. They seem to have a healthy attitude to things so far because they both make sure they spend time apart.
Sex- pretty sure anything like that is a no for a few reasons. Bizarrely I do think she would talk to me about that. Maybe Im just being stupid.
Drugs- no sign of it
Bullying - school say no. My daughter says people are mean to her but she also kicked off the other night because I looked at her "funny" which meant I must have been having a go at her so Im not sure how much to listen to. There are some mean girls at her school but I think she probably gives as good as she gets.

This isn't a mother trying to have power over her daughter. Stop being so dramatic. She's just frustrated that her daughter complains or doesn't eat any food that is put before her. It must be as frustrating as hell.

Not telling her what was for dinner was unnecessarily combative, and by refusing to tell her you let her know that your automatic assumption was that she'd be difficult - surely you can't be surprised that she didn't respond well to that?!

Ive already agreed that was wrong. I havent done it since but FYI she has moaned every.single.time. although obviously I havent pointed that out to her. One thing I know I dont get wrong is I really try hard not to say "I told you so".

Trigger warning - ed

Is she losing weight? Wearing baggy clothes so you can't tell? Exercising a lot or suddenly showing an interest in running or swimming?

Your first post took me back to when my dd's eating disorder started. She would do anything to not eat including causing arguments around food and meal times.
It's not willful disobedience, the voice in her head is screaming at her so loud and forcefully making sure she doesn't eat.

Along with the arguments at dinner time, look out for things like:
running too late for breakfast, forgotten snacks for school, too tired to eat, wanting to cook her own food, not wanting to be watched or seen eating, changing her mind on food preferences, cutting out meat/dairy/chocolate, drinking loads of water.

You will need to approach everything about her differently to get her to eat, and she will need to trust you. She will lie, be nasty and difficult but it's not her, it's the mental illness so you will have to be flexible and bigger than it.

I hope it's not, I hope it's just a difficult teen that will soon grow out of it!

OK so things have been going on for some time and clearly not improving so if waiting it out doesn't sound palatable, can I may a few suggestions? For what it's worth I think her behaviour has tipped over from the standard teenage rage into something more

I didn't have a close relationship with my Mum and I certainly wasn't an easy teenager but my biggest bugbear was she seemed to pounce on me as soon as I walked in the door from school, wanting to know how my day had been, what I'd been up to etc. I just needed to unwind / de-stress for half an hour and then I was OK to talk. That and a snack. Is this something you do - feel you have to contact as soon as she walks in the door?

Her dad needs to get more involved. For example if he witnesses her furies against you, you walk away and he tells her her behaviour is unacceptable and she needs to reign it in. If he won't then you will have to say something like "I find your behaviour unacceptable" and walk away

Consequences - she has no consequences for this unacceptable behaviour (other than missing tea, which is her own choice). So again your DH needs to step up and spell out some consequences. I would suggest you need to look at removing support for scout camps, hobby events etc. Each outburst - no transport to the next hobby event.

I know you have said she refused to take up counselling - is this something you can arrange for yourself, maybe with your DH. Also talk more indepth to the school; she maybe the student who's sitting at the back giving them no trouble. She's clearly not in a happy place - has anyone asked her why she is so unhappy ?

She did say "bloody hell" under her breath at me a few days ago. Then immediately apologised. 😂
Her dad/my husband says things like that prove she is still in there somewhere.

That is what the op has done, and tomorrow she will cook it (as in reheat it) and put it in front of her and she can eat it or not

Massive over reaction and drama over food.

Dinners ready - Eat or don’t.

Seems like a battle over control where food is being used as the weapon. This will never end well.

My DD moans every single day about dinner. Sometimes it’s not that they don’t like it, it’s they don’t fancy it. And that’s absolutely ok.

I hope your daughter is on a better path now.

This is what Im scared of. I dont think its where it is going but her dad and me are on high alert for it. When she isnt kicking off she eats normally.

She has always been very slim and has always worn baggy clothes so it isnt easy to tell but her uniform still fits like it always has.

I don't understand the need for her to do what you want all the time, OP. I mean, my mum was like that, but that was in the 70s. And we had a pretty dreadful relationship for the rest of our lives.

I think the general expectations in the family are more important than the specifics.

At 15 I genuinely don't see the point in withdrawing pocket money etc. She knows full well what's going to happen yet she does it anyway? That surely must tell you this isn't working, other than that you can tell yourself you did sth Supernanny would approve of.

You don't have to be right. You don't have to have this line of punishment stretching from now til she leaves home or she gets with the programme (she isn't going to get with the programme).

I have two daughters with autism, both adults now. I don't doubt how annoying her behaviour is. But she would do "better" if she could and right now she can't.

I would prioritise your relationship, keeping her regulated and eating over everything else. People with easy children who do what their parents say are giving you unrealistic advice imo.

@Arran2024 so the OP should allow her daughter to do whatever she wants and fund it? Have no expectation of the dd?
What when op is actually right?
If 'keeping the daughter regulated' is detrimental to everyone else in the house, does that matter?

This is a complicated situation. I think that you will find that the advice given to parents with children with autism, eating disorders etc is not to be even stricter and more punitive. It is difficult to explain the recommended approach over a post - people go on 12 week parenting courses to understand how best to parent these kids.

You dont just let them do what they want. But equally you don't set expectations which won't be met and then give punishments.

I’ve not read all the posts so apologies if this has been said before. But she sounds like she’d fit a PDA profile of autism which can become more prominent during puberty.

I think someone asked about a safe person - this is because with other people (school etc) autistic people can sometimes mask (hold emotions in to fit in). Then let it all out when they feel safe. Could this fit?

I’m not excusing the behaviour but there could be other explanations that require a different approach and support.

Of course it's not a blooming privilege, and of course you are not honoured or even chosen. You just are their safe person, like it or lump it. It still helps because you know that they do love you no matter what is coming out of their mouth, and you know why they're saying it. So as a parent you feel calmer about it all, and it makes you better able to parent in a strategic and effective way.

Though actually you might not be their "safe person" at all. It might simply be that home is her "safe space" where she goes to relax, and Mum might be the person who makes it feel unsafe by making (perfectly ordinary, everyday) demands.