To be oblivious to the issue people have with JKR? I thought she was a feminist. What have I missed?

[laughingnow]

People have warned me not to state the view above as ‘it’s more complicated’

I didn't even get onto the real life stuff!

That's a looooong list.

No JKR has not done anything to make the bullying of other women.more likely

That’s like saying women should never leave their home or a man might attack them and it would be all their fault. Ie misogynistic tripe

JKR has never said that women who don’t look very feminine ard in any way shape or from any different to other women

in fact she actually does say it shouldn’t matter how you look, how you dress , what your hobbies and interests are - you are just as important and female as the next woman

and if you are not a woman you ard not a woman - you may find that dad but true

the Only people who have incited violence are the ones who say things like “JKR we are coming for you” and “kill a terf”

I know George orwell explored some interesting ideas but if we just used plain English instead of twisting and adding assumed layers of meaning without any justification the world might be nicer

That’s not the fault of JKR. It’s the fault of the extremely vocal minority (I hope!) of trans people and TRAs

She hasn't condoned bullying at all. I don't think I've seen a single gender critical person actually condone any kind of bullying or discrimination against trans people, with the possible exception of Posie Parker (who doesn't consider herself gender critical or a feminist), who said she wouldn't employ or rent a property to a trans person.

(In stark contrast to trans activists, who seem to have made the bullying, harassment and abuse of any woman who doesn't believe in magical thinking into a full time occupation.)

I am not talking about Mumsnet news stories, I'm talking about the tidal wave of bullshit from sources such as BuzzFeed and Pink News, claiming that masculine presenting women are now being attacked in women's toilets. There is absolutely no evidence for this and no reason why it should be the case. The Supreme Court judgment confirmed that trans women shouldn't be using women's single sex spaces. Masculine presenting women couldn't look less like trans women if they tried.

I'm sorry your friend feels they are not welcome anywhere, but not entirely sure why this is women's problem to solve, or indeed how JKR has made it worse.

...and what a wonderful picture that was.

Women not being feminine enough existed in the 80s probably before too but I wasn't around then.

Blaming JKR because men in dresses decided to put the spotlight on themselves & ended up turning society against transpeople is simply you deflecting from the problem & it's true cause.

Utter nonsense. These hoards of women who look soooo masculine (even when up close and personal and after they open their mouths to speak) that they are now getting hounded in toilets is bollocks. And if, IF, that’s happened it’s not the fault or responsibility of JKR. Maybe if boundary pushing men (that includes trans women) stuck to the social contract that’s been in place since day dot about not going into spaces not for them, women wouldn’t be on such high alert. Or if TRA’s hadn’t started insisting that trans women are literal women. Your ire is misplaced.

Has JKR actually said that trans men should be in female spaces? Or is she just bothered about men being in spaces and places they shouldn’t?

Can anyone who makes such bold claims ever back up anything they say on here?

Yes, good point

https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/10/31/cis-woman-harassed-transphobe-female-toilet-short-hair/

An oldie but a goodie.

Troll-lol-lol!

@MissScarletInTheBallroom I could understand if you agreed to disagree, but to actually be clueless as to how JKR has perpetuated that culture is baffling. I can only assume you haven't seen half of her output online.
Also whilst I didn't expect you to have any empathy for my trans masc friend, you seem to have missed the point that JKR's expectation makes other CIS women uncomfortable, ie those people who you are supposedly protecting. Unless you're now going to tell me that you want someone with a full beard in men's clothing walking into a women's bathroom or changing room.

JKR has done a lot of damage. At least some people have the decency to acknowledge it and say it was a necessary side effect of 'winning' their cause. To pretend she hasn't, is at best ignorant.

As @Pleasealexa said, it is fashionable to hate her. This was also alluded to by Tom Harris who recently said "But others with less of an excuse for holding insane opinions took the same line, on the basis that (a) trans people are a minority, (b) fighting for minority rights is A Good Thing; and therefore (c) if you demand minority rights you are On The Right Side Of History."

It's what happens when your beliefs are so paper-thin you can simply be told what they are without ever having looked at the topic yourself.

To be clear.

I don't believe she has perpetuated "that culture" because I don't believe "that culture" exists.

I think that everyone who claims that their "trans masc" and "cis female" friends are now being threatened in women's toilets is a trans activist with an agenda and they are lying because that is what trans activists do.

I don't believe this is happening because, well, I wasn't born yesterday.

So there is nothing to blame JKR for.

Does that clear things up for you?

Hiya thank you for engaging.

Could you tell me what is a CIS woman, please?

I think I know what you mean but I am keen to not get it wrong, thank you.

Isn’t it funny how transmen are finally getting mentioned ?

anyway if they pass as a man which is what you are implying ( my transmen friends don’t at all so wouldn’t be any problem in the ladies ) then they can use the gents - the gents can complain

but at least we can keep the obvious males ( aka transwomen ) out thank you

Out of interest, how do you feel about the culture which was perpetuated by the illegal adoption of self id by Government and institutions?

Just in Scotland, that culture perpetuated violent male sex offenders being held in the female prison estate following policy, women self excluding from rape crisis services which claimed to be single sex and were not and told to 'reframe your trauma', women being suspended from their jobs for avoiding changing with male colleagues, and little girls being sexually assaulted in supermarket toilets.

Did you have any empathy for them? And are we now just, after women's rights were merely clarified, to throw our hands up and say 'you know what? Fuck it! Let's just have a self id free for all!'

And cis is ideological bullshit.

It's pretty obvious, isn't it?

The only value of trans men (as far as the TQ+ lobby is concerned) is that they can be exploited to help trans identifying male people get what they want.

Which is why the TQ+ lobby is suddenly up in arms about them, right after the Supreme Court told trans identifying male people that they can't have everything they want.

That about sums it up nicely actually.

I don’t use Twitter but the weirdest post of hers I came across was her being huffy an
”asexuality awareness day”. Seemed like an odd thing to be huffy about!

Would you like to tell us who it is that you view her interactions with as bullying please? So we know who you are referring to exactly.

Because the people I see her pushing back on are male people who have been abusive towards her. I am happy to list the main ones so you and others can check for yourselves. Start with India Willoughby and Sophie Molly.

Is she supposed to, in your view, accept and absorb the direct abuse they send her way?

Are you inadvertently siding with abusers when you say she is a bully?

I would be interested in seeing the examples of bullying behaviour you are calling out.

It most certainly is, but not to detract from the fact some people truly believe this. Obviously not very well informed, educated people, but still

🙄

”So what you really mean is…<followed by a lot of made up nonsense>”

What I meant is what I wrote.

That some people have taken against her because they disagree with her stance on trans rights. To answer OP’s question of why some people have an issue with her.

Why do we need to be aware of people who aren't having sex?

Oh gosh, is she using hurty words?

1. Asexuality and abstinence / celibacy are not
   the same

2. The fact you have conflated the two is probably why people wanted an asexuality awareness day.

3. As people who are asexual can often be made to feel there is something “wrong” with them for not experiencing sexual desire (and find
   it has caused them non-stop issues in relationships) increased awareness that it’s not necessarily a condition but just an innate way of being can bring
   peace to people with.

4. Who the fuck cares?! Why on earth is this something to get huffy about among all the other “awareness” days out there.

Comes across like “old man shouting at the clouds”. Or like people whining about Pride month “why do we need to know who people prefer to have sex with?!?!111”

It's pointless to hope to find any logic or reason from trans activists. India Willoughby was saying earlier that sex realists like JK Rowling and Ricky Gervais are 'like Hitler' because they are kind to animals.

This is level of thought and accuracy they put into the debate. It's hardly surprising that public opinion is changing and people are realising that men who identify as women are, and always will be, men.