Is gentle parenting effective

[Lifeisinteresting]

I was born in mid 80s so my parents parented like typical 80s parents, more tough love than softer approach. My daughter was born in the 00s we took a boundaries, firm but fair approach. I see posts on MN or with my friends who now have young kids who gentle parent and can't help but think half the reactions are down to not setting reasonable boundaries and responses.

Agreed.
(I've said this already)

I think you’ll find a lot do, a good school will have strong boundaries that children are aware, those boundaries are enforced and children after the event will have a quick chat with the adult to ensure the child understands why x action is wrong. I guess in some areas some schools have teachers screaming at children, others allowing poor behaviour and manners, but that hasn’t been a thing anywhere I’ve been.

I think you've not met some of the so called gentle (but also annoyingly loud) parents I've come across. They're performance parenting Gold medal winners.

I think it's a fallacy to suggest that punishment is the reason children learn to be good humans.

If the only reason your child isn't bullying another child is because they know they'll get punished if they do, what stops them from being bullies in situations where they won't get caught? If they only do their homework because they're punished if they don't, what happens when they get to university and nobody is grounding them for not completing their essays?

Gentle parenting gives children a framework in which to grow into empathetic, independent, self-motivated individuals. If you respect your child's feelings and give them strategies for emotional regulation they will grow up respecting other people's feelings too.

If you raise children to behave in order to avoid punishment, you're relying on someone or something to always be there to inflict that punishment, and there won't always be.

Comprehension not your strong point?
'Darling, you really must read the words'. 🫣

Because there's different styles.

Parent 1 will hit the child to get them to comply
Parent 2 might shout or throw things
Parent 3 might talk and explain
Parent 4 might ignore everything

They're all "parenting".

Schools follow exactly this approach. It’s not called “gentle parenting” but behaviour systems in primary and secondary often include things like Zones of Regulation displays, time-out passes, reflective consequences, etc. to support the child in managing their behaviour and understanding the consequences of their actions.

When my 10 year old nephew told me to fuck off after I asked him and my son to keep the noise down as the younger ones were sleeping, I was not impressed to see my brother go in and say "be polite" and that was it. My nephew just laughed.

My own son (13) was horrified at the lack of punishment. He would have had his phone taken away for a week and made to apologise!

Gentle parenting is fine but there needs to be consequences for actions, clear boundaries and rules.

Passive parenting is the problem.

Sorry the joke went over your head, darling. Mummy will make a more intellectually appropriate one next time.

It makes a lot of sense as many families are more concerned about how they look from the outside. Especially with very big families, often overlapping with very religious as well, it's would be humanly impossible to gentle parent 3-5 kids of various ages and make sure all their emotional needs are taken care of. From what I gleaned with friends growing up like that, there was always some form of abuse going on behind closed doors. Eg A very angry, violent father which was pretty normal for 90s times. Other times, the children are simply ignored and nobody cares what their true interests or personalities are. The single most important part was getting along with your siblings but beyond that, nobody gave a shit about your interests or hobbies or identities.

🤣🤣🤣

They definitely do. When's the last time a teacher angrily shouted at a 5 year old, yanked a toy away from them, told them to shut up, smacked them round the head....?

They get the child to comply with out the fear of pain, it anger etc.

They "gentle parent" these kids, by talking to them, setting clear and firm boundaries, building a relationship of respect and trust, acknowledging they have feelings etc.

They did comprehend? Look at the thread - it’s roughly equal in people saying both of these things - “gentle parenting is just normal parenting” (ergo, most parents are doing it anyway), vs. “gentle parenting is the reason children are badly behaved”. If that’s the case, most people’s children must be badly behaved, no?

I did, children now adults, and it’s a 100% worked for us. We have confident, caring, empathetic young adults that care about themselves and others. They have chosen amazing, authentic lives for themselves. Most importantly no mental health problems, they talk things through.

Best decision I have ever made to be perfectly honest. We have a very relaxed, honest and respectful home.

So why did you use the term is a negative way? What's wrong with a child asking the reasons why something is happening??

For example.

You'd want an explanation as to why there's 3 men in your garden with spades and they says "give me the bucket you're holding". The bucket you're just about to fill with water to wash the car.
You'd ask questions immediately and expect answers.
And when the men say "because we've found gold! Hooray let's all share".

A child asks, they're immediately shot down and told "do what I said/ because I said so".
And when they get upset, because they're confused and don't understand they're then are punished and told to be quiet and the bucket is removed from them.

You have to balance your child’s feelings with the needs of society and expectations of the wider world.

That means you validate their feelings but also teach them to be aware of others feelings . Teach them basic manners such as please and thank you, behave nicely in public spaces because it is a shared space and others have feelings too.

Letting children run around in restaurants (for example) isn’t helping them learn about their place in the wider social context. They are just reacting to their desire to run about oblivious to the fact they are annoying several people. As parents we need to teach them that we need to control our behaviour in certain places by not allowing certain behaviour from the start.

Mine are adults now so I parented young children before ‘gentle parenting’ was really a thing. I was fairly strict and had firm boundaries and while they had their moments on the whole they were pretty good children especially in public spaces.

Agreed.

Going back to your OP, the biggest problem with ‘Gentle Parenting’ is that a lot of people who think they are using it don’t actually understand what it is, and a lot who think they know what it is, misinterpret it.

It is basically just parenting.
No abuse, but firm, fair boundaries.

They definitely do. When's the last time a teacher angrily shouted at a 5 year old, yanked a toy away from them, told them to shut up, smacked them round the head....?
They get the child to comply with out the fear of pain, it anger etc.
They "gentle parent" these kids, by talking to them, setting clear and firm boundaries, building a relationship of respect and trust, acknowledging they have feelings etc.

What the fuck school have you experienced that has time for this? Schools with effective discipline policies will have a host of consequences.

They will not expend time or energy acknowledging the feelings of the selfish kid who ripped up another childs work, or the bully who injured another child, or the child whos disrupted a lesson repeatedly.

They will threaten contacting parents, dish out detentions, take phones away, set extra work/lines, remove privileges like attending year end proms etc

Teachers will speak firmly to older children or even raise their voice etc.

Oh yes all those 5 year olds with phones 🤣

If you have gentle kids then maybe... but my DS has ADHD and can look absolutely feral when he's hyped up. He wouldn't be able to listen to any "calm explaining" and "respectful reasoning" when he's not ready to. So we do have to shout to get his attention sometimes.

It's a difficult balance, because you need to shout to get his attention, but then scale it back to a firm but fair voice so his fight of flight doesn't trigger and send him off into a defensive combative mindset.

However, we don't shout things like "are you thick or something" or "are you a bloody idiot!" Etc... you get the idea. The shouting is volume increase but not nastiness/threatening which i think was a part of 80s and 90s parenting in many homes, which we are more aware of as a society now.

“What the fuck school have you experienced that has time for this?”

Both of my sons primary schools, all the schools I coached in.

I think there’s quite a broad gap between hitting five year old children over the head and explaining to Tarquin that Ellie’s hair isn’t going to grow back straight away so he should have done some kind thinking before he cut off her plait.

We have emotions for a reason. Children need to understand that the things they do make people happy, sad, frustrated, shocked, scared and angry. You don’t need to thwack them or yell at them. But telling them firmly to put their shoes on otherwise they’ll be going to school in socks is a valid way of getting the family to school on time.

Many would characterise gentle parenting as 'firm but fair'. The boundaries are absolutely there but emotions are not seen as a discipline issue, it's about teaching how to manage those feelings. So for example my DDs have often been called 'good' for not crying or getting upset about things and I don't see it in that way. I don't see any child as bad I see a child who is struggling. Gentle parents wouldn't have a problem with any child for having feelings. They would guide and teach on appropriate ways to deal with those feelings e.g. no hitting, what to do instead. Gentle parenting is essentially authoritative parenting, where boundaries are clear and logical (so not arbitrarily harsh and potentially open to negotiation in some circumstances if thinking about it from the child's perspective although absolutely non negotiable if it affects safety or wellbeing) and there is a warm responsive caregiver who tries to see things from the child's point of view. The research evidence is very clear that authoritative parenting is the most effective way of parenting in terms of children's outcomes.

I was a child of the 70's, so very much under authoritative parenting. My observation would be that at that time, everyone sat at your desk, in silence and listened to the teacher, and got in with their work. Zero interruptions. Happy calm atmosphere.

Now it seems it's a free for all, with children having to be negotiated with, with these behaviour systems, costing time and money.

Things change, including parenting styles, but you have to note that children used to be much better behaved in school because there were higher expectations of behaviour and respect for elders.

Add in the lack of toilet training, because you have to wait for your little ones to "be ready" and I think it has just gone too far the other way. I feel for teachers.

That's exactly what it is, or should be anyway.
I read up on it when I had my son and thought the same. But maybe that's because it's how my parents were. If I'd grown up being shouted at, smacked, constantly grounded without really understand what I'd done wrong, it would seem more "out there".

Many schools make use of restorative practice - so they do make some time, no doubt imperfectly, for this. Worth a google.