What to do when one member or a group does not want to tip?

[Heritagehog]

Title should say one member OF a group, sorry!

So I have a family member who, on principle, does not agree with tipping in restaurants. She particularly objects to the 10% ‘discretionary’ gratuity being added onto the bill presumptively. She will not bat an eyelid asking waiting staff to remove the gratuity from the bill, no matter how well served we have been.

Now, no doubt there will be people here who agree with her that it is unnecessary in the UK and rather cheeky. I’m aware there is a debate to be had. Personally, however, my stance is that I would much rather just suck it up and pay the gratuity (unless there was actually a problem of some sort) for the sake of being gracious and not offending the staff (rightly or wrongly).

In a few months’ time, we will be going on a family celebration. It is a ruby wedding anniversary and 10 of us will be going somewhere quite fancy (well, fancy for us). The sort of place that has both an a la carte menu and a set menu, and two courses will probably come to £50 each, with drinks on top. I fully expect the service to be excellent.

I have googled the menu and they do add the 10% gratuity.

With such a large group, it’s pretty much a given that we will just split the bill equally between us all.

I will cringe myself inside out and die of embarrassment if she asks for the gratuity to be removed before we split the bill (and she 100% would do this).

How do I handle this? Should I approach the restaurant staff beforehand to quietly pay the gratuity upfront and ask that they remove it from the bill? Would that be strange?

Has anyone else had a situation like this before?

I’m not really interested in being right or fair in this scenario, my main objective is to have a happy evening where nobody is annoyed, embarrassed or offended.

Because of course people are entitled to have a different opinion are they not? Going to be a miserable exhausting life if you can’t understand not everyone will agree with you.

American culture influencing sheep.

If you think having the amount the restaurant is charging for the meal being higher than the price they are advertising on the menu is fine, then you (and everyone that agrees with you in the group) can still pay it. No-one is stopping anyone who wants to pay extra, from doing so.

Removing the supposedly voluntary amount the restaurant adds to what the bill should be then offers each person the choice of whether to pay over and above the menu price, or not to do so. So everyone ought to be happy.

American culture influencing sheep.

tipping culture in the UK and Ireland long predated the current US tipping. My parents (born in the 20s) would have automatically tipped waiters. If you visited someone's home and they had staff, you tipped them when you left as well. My parents visited me in the US in the 1990s and we stayed with a wealthy cousin who had a live-in housekeeper. I was really surprised to see my dad give her money when he thanked her when we left. He told me of course you tip someone who waits on you/housekeeps for you. I suspect they tipped my weekly cleaners too.

It isn't an american import (just as halloween isn't an american import). If you want to forget the tradition of tipping in the UK fine - suits your pocket. But don't pretend it is people sheepishly following US culture. It isn't.

As others suggested, the solution would be to arrange for you to have a separate bill.

No you’re the one being daft.

Asking for the gratuity to be removed for everyone is rude, doubly so if you haven’t checked with the other bill payers.

She can ask for herself, but only herself.

I can definitely believe that about making hundreds. I made £30 in tips the last time I waitressed (several years ago) but it was just for a 3 hour shift waiting on two tables. I can imagine if it was a full shift and for more tables I’d have made much more.

Someone else looking after another two tables at that same event only got £10 in tips.

We were expected to keep our own tips and not pool and split them.

So at the end of that event I got paid more for doing the same job as her. And i’m sure some people got paid more than me.

That’s another reason why tipping is wrong.

I dont understand why people think its outrageous not to tip?!

It’s a lack of critical thinking and sheep mentality.

You’ve summed it up well. I realised the absurdity of it when I was getting screamed at while working NMW call centre jobs by irate customers and working hard to resolve their issues and the most I was getting was a thank you.

When I was a waitress of course I accepted tips gladly. But I didn’t ever whinge or feel bad if I didn’t get them. It was a nice to have but I didn’t feel entitled to have them

If everyone has the set menu and the gratuity is baked into the bill, then you know how much it is in advance. You just tell them the price including service and that the bill will be split evenly without any inelegant demands for the service charge to be removed from one payment. Your relative can lump it or leave it.

For a twenty-year-old, the minimum hourly wage is about £11 per hour. That minumum is calculated on the assumption that you'll work forty hours a week.

Most restaurant chains will give serving staff a five-hour a week contract. In other words, they might give you twenty-hours this week, or they might give you five. They might give you twenty and send you home on the day because it's quiet. You never know.

So tips are the difference between my daughter paying her rent and eating, or not.

You may say, 'Then she should get a better job." I agree. But then someone else will be exploited this way.

You may say, "She should have two or three jobs." But as the rota is different every week - and every job of that sort expects you to be available fourteen hours a day, seven days a week, even though they may only need you for ten hours.

You may say, "That shouldn't be allowed." You're right. But it is. And that's why tipping isn't 'outdated and ridiculous in this day and age'.

What is it about this day and age that makes you think it is?

@SuburbanSprawl Yes she should get a more suitable job if she can’t get enough hours and depends on it to pay rent. That’s ridiculous. Or if she chooses to stay there fine but thats on her.

When I did waitressing I was living with family so I wasn’t reliant on it to pay bills, so tips were just an added bonus, but if I was I’d have made sure I got a full time position be it in waitressing or one that guarantees whatever is the minimum guaranteed hours I need to live.

And at any rate I’m sure there’s other MW jobs where they get low contracted hours . I used to do retail and was on a 4 hour contract, no-one gave me tips. I used to do agency TA work and sometimes they’d call me in, sometimes they wouldn’t and it was barely above minimum wage. Again, I didn’t get tips.

There’s no good reason to single out a few jobs for tips, you either tip all NMW earners or you don’t.

If it's your sister I'd tackle her beforehand. Remind her there will be a service charge added but you don't want her embarrassing your parents at the end of the evening by demanding it's removed. Tell her if she doesn't want to contribute then you'll pay her tip for her, but the evening is to end on a happy and peaceful note.

So you're happy for people to be exploited this way. It's on them. They should get a better job.

Have you thought of going into politics? I think you'd make a terrific Employment Minister.

Agreed. They are limited with their language and tend to use a small number of MN tropes as insults. See also, ‘bet you’re fun at parties’.

Ask her to pay the service charge along with everyone else and tell her you'll refund her that amount yourself. Then pay her back, with a flourish, in front of everyone "Hey, mean person, here's the tenner you didn't want to pay for the tip".

What a basic and frankly silly interpretation/summary of my response.

everything I said still stands and you didn’t actually engage with any of my points.

At the risk of repeating myself I’ll say again - I’m sure the minimum 5 hours may work for some people. The four hour contract was fine for me as a college student living at home or even as a uni student who had a loan coming it to pay rent. The retail pay was extra - more like fun money.

But this low hours contract doesn’t work for your daughter who has various bills to pay out of her salary, so she should get a more suitable job for her situation. Simple! It’s not rocket science.

Again, it’s her choice - but if she chooses to remain in this role that’s on her , not on the people who choose not to tip.

Luckily this is your sister and not some autocratic matriarch. I agree with you about the reality of tipping, but neither of you should be laying down the law for everyone.

I would assume that things will go well. Be prepared so that if Sister tries to have the tip removed you can speak directly tobthe waitstaff and say, ‘Some of us are happy to express our appreciation. What is the best way to do that?’

So - whether or not you rely on the money to pay the rent, it's unjust for an employer to be inconsistent about the commitment to providing working hours. It's not fair to the worker, and it's not fair to you either. Because the employer is essentially saying to the government, "We'll pay them when we feel like it and you pay them Universal Credit to make up the difference."

Secondly, I think we as individuals have a responsibility to those around us. So if one knows that a worker is low-paid and relies on tips, it's anti-social to say, "well you should get a better job. Not my problem, sunshine". It's also unkind.

Thirdly, you suggest that there's no good reason to tip some low-paid workers but not others. There is - established practice, personal interaction, provided mechanisms for doing so.

But, yes, I agree that if there were mechanisms in place top tip all low-paid workers, we should.

If you feel exploited in a job either make a move or if possible stand up and say something to try and change the situation in your role.

I felt my agency didn’t pay me enough as a TA, and the hours were so unreliable and yes it was annoying but did I expect tips from parents? Or for “society” to pay more. Nope.

What I did is leave!

Again the current system is most MW workers are not tipped, so it’s unfair to expect people- many of whom are MW earners themselves and/or on short hour contracts - to tip people in certain positions.

If you really want to make a proper sustainable change, campaign via your local politician or something like that.

It’s not on to demand of “society” to tip more to address either piss taking employers if that’s the way you see it - or your daughter choosing an unsuitable job.

Low hour contracts are very suitable for some people though as I’ve said and arguably not inherently a bad thing depending on your situation. But they’re clearly not suitable for your daughter. Why doesn’t she find a more suitable role?

Lots of jobs have zero or non-guaranteed hours contracts. Do you tip delivery drivers too?

It's a potentially abusive and unfair employment practice, but it won't ever stop if customers just routinely keep adding on extra to bump up the wages.

I get that it's a serious bummer if you're only being given five hours a week, amd you can't get a more practical job; but who would actually expect to be able to earn enough to live on for five hours' work a week?

Why would you even entertain taking a job that only offers five hours and expect to manage on it for your main or only income?

So your parents are from the UK? If they were born in the 20s say they were adults in the 40s then? If you have staff in your home like your parents had housekeepers and cleaners then you are rich. So I take this was a rich thing which many people weren’t back then due to the war, many people couldn’t afford food or clothes never mind tipping their staff who they have hired to help them clean their homes or cook for them.

Ridiculous to assume all chain restaurants only offer a five hour contract. How absurd 🤣 I agree with you. If you’re relying on tips to pay your rent it’s quite foolish to stay in that job. Plenty of other jobs out there that provide stability on a higher contract.

To be fair, moaning about whether someone is going to tip at a meal, is fairly weak to start with. Sit back look at your life and decide what is really important in it. This subject isn’t.

It's not even just that most workers on NMW don't happen to be tipped.

If Tesco started sticking an extra 10% on to the total of the shelf prices of your shopping and told you that it was a service charge that would go to their checkout staff and shelf stackers, people would be absolutely outraged. They certainly wouldn't be calling other people tight and stingy if they asked/demanded that it be removed.

Some people get furious enough when the shelves display two prices and make it clear that you either pay the higher one or you can pay the lower one if you sign up for their free club card.

Tipping is a weird anachronism, back from the days when it was only wealthy people who could afford to eat in restaurants and poor, underpaid people working in them. Even then, I'm sure it wasn't a friendly show of gratitude but rather dangling a carrot to put them in their place and warning them that they wouldn't get it if they didn't kowtow to their every whim and demand.

Be honest: the main 'reason' that people tip waiting staff is 'because' they tip waiting staff - without ever thinking about whether it makes sense or not.

I get this from both sides. Iv been a waitress and understand the Importance of tips BUT also feel like that’s their job they are actually just doing there job for a set wage. I knew I wanted more money in life so educated myself and got a better paid job as simple as that. It’s diff in the USA as gratitude is literally their pay. If you don’t tip they don’t get paid. But servers understand this and customers do too. I’d speak to sister first and explain arrangements and that due to a large party gratuity is added as a standard not something to be taken off or deducted and did she wish to add to this or not. If not I’m sure she will stick to her budget and pay for what she has had. People who don’t tip usually don’t split the bill either. I never split but due to not drinking alcohol and not having a big appetite where’s my friends go all out.