DD has said she will never view me as a mum

[Strangersev]

Hi all, this could be long and I want to say straight away I know I messed up, I just don’t know how to reply, I’m not looking to minimise my actions.

So background, my ex husband and I both had jobs which involved moving relatively frequently, we had one child, and over the 18 years of her childhood she lived in 5 countries (Canada, Italy, Singapore, Switzerland, and France). I am British, her dad is Italian.

For the first 10 years of her life I’d say we were a very happy family, we lived in Italy for 7 years which provided a real period of stability. We then moved to Singapore, this was more for my sake than my ex husbands but much like Canada in the early years he was willing to make a compromise for my career. However here is where cracks started to form. We lost our way with parenting, would have loud and dramatic fights and often our poor little DD would be witness. I regret this period deeply and 2 years later we moved to Switzerland, this was meant to be a happy middle ground, good career opportunities for us both and DD hadn’t really enjoyed life in Singapore so we thought this may be more familiar.

My ex husband immediately started having an affair, I knew but for 2 years just allowed it to happen. I lied to our DD about him working late when I knew he was with her, I didn’t question or press him on where he was, however 2 years in I came home to them in our bed. This was my breaking point, I spiralled, had a mental breakdown and went into a deep depression. I decided for 6 months I’d move back to my parents home in the uk, my husband and I agreed we would divorce. We spoke to DD and she insisted she wasn’t moving again, she liked Geneva, she was happy at school. I accepted that 6 months apart from her would be a sacrifice worth making. The 6 months passed and I was offered a dream role in Paris. My mental health wasn’t great still, I felt selfishly like I needed to make a decision that was best for me, so I took the job. I asked DD to move with me, she refused. Geneva to Paris was a very manageable distance though, I spent all the holidays with her and we had a lovely time. I do realise now I was saying horrible things about her dad to her during this time and that was immature and cruel of me.

Once DD finished that phase of schooling at 16, her dad got offered a job in Luxembourg which he decided he was going to take. DD was offered Paris or Luxembourg for her diploma years and settled on Paris. I think upon reflection this was very little to do with me and more that for a 16 year old girl Paris is perhaps the more inspirational place to live. I thought her living with me again would be wonderful but the reality was she took 7 subjects for her diploma instead of 6 (wanted to take all her languages) and the time taken up by other elements of the IB diploma meant she was never really home, distance grew between us massively in this time. I started a new relationship which at the time I didn’t feel guilty for as she was really never home in the week and on weekends she’s often want to go to her dads.

DD then took a gap year, and after that went to university in the UK. She is now graduating this summer.

I met up with her for lunch yesterday. She told me about the masters she will be doing, how excited she is to move back to Italy. I realised that in the 3 years she has been living in my home country I’ve only seen her 6 times. She always spends Christmas with her dad, spent summers travelling so it felt difficult to see her. I asked her jokingly if she felt more “British” after her 3 years and she said not at all. She is a third culture kid but If asked to pick she would always say she is Italian. I was hurt by this initially and told her this. She then said “I don’t even really view you as a mum”. This broke my heart I started to cry and she said she was best going.

She messaged me this morning explaining that she can’t view me as a mum as when she was 14-16 I messed with her head. I told her that her dad was evil and cruel yet I left her with him alone. She listed all the ways her dad has been a more selfless parent and more supportive parent.

I am now sad heartbroken and stunned, I don’t really know how to reply? Of course I can and will apologise and I don’t plan to defend my version of events but I feel like I should at least explain?

AIBU to feel like I should explain my side of the story to her? Or have I been ridiculously selfish and this is a result of my own actions?

Any advice much appreciated/

I don't think you can explain anything, and anything you will try to explain will just sound like excuses. I think a heartfelt apology that you know you screwed up, wish you could do things differently and hope that in time you can rebuild your relationship with her.

She sounds like an amazing young woman with a good head on her shoulders and very educated.

Be open to her if she wants to talk more about it and don't try and defend yourself, and just keep an open dialogue but I wouldn't expect anything from her.

It is difficult..i am sorry to be harsh but it sounds like you both prioritised your careers over having a stable home for your DD. I would never just leave my kid for 6 months and go live in another country.

I think op your relationship has been pretty strained recently if you have only seen her 6 times in three years. You can’t redo things you know were damaging to her but you can listen and focus on making your relationship better now. She is allowed to express her feelings about what went wrong when she was young.

I think you should concentrate on listening not putting your side and offer her the chance to spend time together doing something she enjoys.

I think her feeling are fair and valid. You’ve explained your side of the story here and I don’t see any examples of you putting her first or being a proper mum. She feels her dad was a more selfless and supportive parent and I don’t think she’s wrong

I agree with PP that you can't explain anything. If your explanation is what you have posted, even I as an adult who hasn't been effected by this can't see it as a valid explanation for what you put your child through. All you can do is apologise and admit you were selfish.
You may have to make peace with the fact that she won't see you as a mother. You weren't there for her during the years she needed a mother most. There may be no coming back from that.

Just accept her view. Suck it up. Appreciate the relationship you have left. Hope for better in the future. She may come to view things differently if and when she becomes a mother herself.

It's hard to say the dad was less selfish when he literally cheated and threw it in your face

The move to Paris was selfish but she moved with you for her own selfish reasons so clearly the apple didn't fall far from the tree

She clearly believed your mental breakdown wasn't serious

She feels how she feels , explaining will do nothing I think all you can do is say that you accept that you’ve made some truly terrible decisions but would like an opportunity to try and at least rebuild a relationship with her and then actually put yourself out to do that . It does indeed sound like she has come very far down your list of priorities for a long time and to spew bile about her father whilst leaving her with him is despicable .

I see her point. Don’t explain your reasons, they’re not good enough. Apologise and mean it, or keep quiet. Do better.

This is so sad. She’s basically grown up without you.
There’s no point explaining as it won’t change how she feels. You could apologise and show her that you will put her first moving forward. But you will actually need to make sacrifices for her, ie/ move a business meeting, help her move her stuff from one flat to another. You have to be there for her constantly and unconditionally. If she’ll let you….

Her feelings are valid and understandable. I see totally that you’ve had hard times but both you and your husband seem to have prioritised your careers, travel, your own feelings and (in your husband’s case) his cock, over your daughter’s needs. You barely see her. You minimise major disruptions (such as the idea of moving from Geneva to Paris) and emotional abuse.

I think your daughter sounds great but she also sounds as if she has detached emotionally from you as a method of self-preservation. She hasn’t cut contact with you though. You still have a relationship, which is a good start.

I would work on trying to understand her feelings rather than immediately being defensive. I completely see how hard they must be to hear and I have sympathy for you, but also for her.

Rather than trying to wish her feelings away, you need to acknowledge them and to apologise. You can still have a strong relationship with her, but it needs to start with acceptance of what has happened so far, what you did and how she feels about it. Then build a better relationship from where you are.

Oof OP, she has been through a lot of turmoil growing up hasn't she? I'm not going to comment on what you or her dad could have done differently as it can't be changed and you don't need a kicking. What you can do now is show up as her mum, not as a friend or peer who's been hurt. You don't need to explain or defend - it won't make a difference and will look like excuse-making. You could apologise though. You need to think about what kind of mum you actually want to be for her (and be realistic about what you are capable of in this regard) and show her, patiently and over an extended period of time, that you are going to be there for her.

Don’t ‘explain’ that’s the same as defending. Own it, apologise, admit your failings as a parent, don’t bring your ex into the conversation. Tell her you’d really like to repair the relationship and take her response as a lead from there.

Acknowledge her feelings. Acknowledge how hard it must have been for her. Apologise for your part of the story.
That's all you can do now.
Leave the door open for her to have a relationship with you. Send her messages or whatever and let her know that you are thinking of her on a regular basis. Make an effort to support her decision around moving to Italy, maybe visit her ?
The situation for her seems very hard to have grown up in. I can see how it was hard for you too. It is what it is. All you can do now is acknowledge your role and move forward

Her feelings are authentic and what she’s experienced. Listen and don’t interrupt or interject. Don’t add your narrative
You may not have intended harm or disruption, but she has felt badly treated treated and disappointed in the mother-daughter relationship
You can’t change the past you can only work with the present and it needs to be on mutually agreeable terms. Try see what you can both find tolerable going forward
She’s a smart woman congratulate her on her accomplishments eg Undergraduate and planning masters, her independence etc

You haven’t been there for her during her life. Your own choice. Too late now, appreciate that she is still in contact with you.

I think you should take the really great advice from the previous posts and shut this thread. This is AIBU on mumsnet and you are about to receive a kicking.

Respectfully, OP, you screwed up, by your own account. While you were still married you dragged your child around the world for work purposes, then had a messy, protracted break-up after which you moved to another country, badmouthing your child’s father and forming a new relationship because your child wasn’t present enough after she moved to Paris to live with you to warrant you not doing so. I don’t think your ‘explanation’ will help, and I genuinely don’t understand why you’re so surprised. I would apologise and focus on trying to establish a better relationship in future, being led by her.

I am sorry to say this because I am sure you love your daughter but it sounds as though she has never been your first priority.
For my husband and I having children changed our lives in that they and not our careers became our priority. We could both have gone a lot further in our careers if we had spent more time focusing on our jobs. But we don't regret anything. That was our choice.
There is nothing wrong with focusing on your career but I have always believed if you make a choice to have children you have a duty to put them first.
I'm sorry you daughter feels as she does. Can you explain how you feel and what led you to make the decisions you did without complaining about her father? If so I would do that.
I don't think it's too late to repair your relationship but it will take a lot of hard work and will probably include more listening to her and getting to really know her than you explaining why what happened in the past happened.

Oh - and don't expect her to be grateful for what you do now. She's had very little of you for years, for a long time what you do may just seem like crumbs to her. It sounds as well like for a long time you've treated her as a friend or peer rather than your child. So that's how she's going to see you, possibly for a long time.

I don't think that this is like an argument that you can win by making a good case. You need to slowly build back up and demonstrate to her that you are a person that can be relied on and trusted. This is going to take time and I think you should find a third party for support during this so you can just focus on being what she needs in a mum when you are interacting with her.

So, your answer to someone else dilemma is what you’d never do. All about you
Well, that has certainly added something. not

You made it all about you - again - by crying when she told you what she was feeling.

It’s natural to want to defend yourself, but that’s not what your daughter needs from you. She needs you to listen to her feelings, how things were for her, and meet her there and take responsibility for your part in it.

As a parent you have to put your own stuff aside to a certain extent so you can be present for your children and what they’re going through.

There comes a point where you can have a more adult to adult relationship, but you’ve messed up through her childhood so she’s probably nowhere near that point yet. Just focus on repair and being there for her right now.

There is no explanation. You were selfish and this is entirely because of you and your choices.

You abandoned your daughter, thinking it was a sacrifice worth making, and emotionally abused and neglected her with your comments about her father - the parent who actually stayed there to parent her.

You’ve made your bed, now you have to lie in it. There is no going back and I don’t think this can be fixed.