DD has said she will never view me as a mum

[Strangersev]

Hi all, this could be long and I want to say straight away I know I messed up, I just don’t know how to reply, I’m not looking to minimise my actions.

So background, my ex husband and I both had jobs which involved moving relatively frequently, we had one child, and over the 18 years of her childhood she lived in 5 countries (Canada, Italy, Singapore, Switzerland, and France). I am British, her dad is Italian.

For the first 10 years of her life I’d say we were a very happy family, we lived in Italy for 7 years which provided a real period of stability. We then moved to Singapore, this was more for my sake than my ex husbands but much like Canada in the early years he was willing to make a compromise for my career. However here is where cracks started to form. We lost our way with parenting, would have loud and dramatic fights and often our poor little DD would be witness. I regret this period deeply and 2 years later we moved to Switzerland, this was meant to be a happy middle ground, good career opportunities for us both and DD hadn’t really enjoyed life in Singapore so we thought this may be more familiar.

My ex husband immediately started having an affair, I knew but for 2 years just allowed it to happen. I lied to our DD about him working late when I knew he was with her, I didn’t question or press him on where he was, however 2 years in I came home to them in our bed. This was my breaking point, I spiralled, had a mental breakdown and went into a deep depression. I decided for 6 months I’d move back to my parents home in the uk, my husband and I agreed we would divorce. We spoke to DD and she insisted she wasn’t moving again, she liked Geneva, she was happy at school. I accepted that 6 months apart from her would be a sacrifice worth making. The 6 months passed and I was offered a dream role in Paris. My mental health wasn’t great still, I felt selfishly like I needed to make a decision that was best for me, so I took the job. I asked DD to move with me, she refused. Geneva to Paris was a very manageable distance though, I spent all the holidays with her and we had a lovely time. I do realise now I was saying horrible things about her dad to her during this time and that was immature and cruel of me.

Once DD finished that phase of schooling at 16, her dad got offered a job in Luxembourg which he decided he was going to take. DD was offered Paris or Luxembourg for her diploma years and settled on Paris. I think upon reflection this was very little to do with me and more that for a 16 year old girl Paris is perhaps the more inspirational place to live. I thought her living with me again would be wonderful but the reality was she took 7 subjects for her diploma instead of 6 (wanted to take all her languages) and the time taken up by other elements of the IB diploma meant she was never really home, distance grew between us massively in this time. I started a new relationship which at the time I didn’t feel guilty for as she was really never home in the week and on weekends she’s often want to go to her dads.

DD then took a gap year, and after that went to university in the UK. She is now graduating this summer.

I met up with her for lunch yesterday. She told me about the masters she will be doing, how excited she is to move back to Italy. I realised that in the 3 years she has been living in my home country I’ve only seen her 6 times. She always spends Christmas with her dad, spent summers travelling so it felt difficult to see her. I asked her jokingly if she felt more “British” after her 3 years and she said not at all. She is a third culture kid but If asked to pick she would always say she is Italian. I was hurt by this initially and told her this. She then said “I don’t even really view you as a mum”. This broke my heart I started to cry and she said she was best going.

She messaged me this morning explaining that she can’t view me as a mum as when she was 14-16 I messed with her head. I told her that her dad was evil and cruel yet I left her with him alone. She listed all the ways her dad has been a more selfless parent and more supportive parent.

I am now sad heartbroken and stunned, I don’t really know how to reply? Of course I can and will apologise and I don’t plan to defend my version of events but I feel like I should at least explain?

AIBU to feel like I should explain my side of the story to her? Or have I been ridiculously selfish and this is a result of my own actions?

Any advice much appreciated/

A balanced view is her parents were both career focused providing a life full of opportunity and their relationship broke down and caused hurt, but her mother and father were responsible for that, not her mother alone.

Her dad betrayed her mother for two years until it could no longer be ignored. Her mother put up with it to provide constancy and keep family together.

When they split up her mother suffered a great deal. This spilled out and DD was living with Dad and could see no wrong in his actions.

When DD came to live with her mother, her mother got a boyfriend ...how was this wrong, I'm baffled by this one.

Her dad fucked his girlfriend while he was with her mother. Her mother was just dating someone so she had some companionship in life. Wasn't that allowed?

Mothers are held to some imaginary pure standard that Fathers are not.

OP
One day DD may understand all the above.
Humans are fallible and fuck things up.
Just be a good parent from now on, even if that feels like like a loving friend or auntie.

Sounds like you’re in complete denial. Sounds like she made the best of her situation which was not of her choosing. Hopefully you can rebuild some kind of relationship with her.

I think it shows the damage that badmouthing the other parent can do when it comes to the children.

I am also sorry for being harsh, but you say yourself that for the years she was 14-16 you took your 'dream job' away from her, and said horrible things about her father. I can understand how this 'messed with her head'.

You've used those words 'dream job' to justify your choice to us, but let's not lose sight of the fact that most parents would forego their dreams if it might harm their kids. Did you consult her before accepting the job, or just give her an ultimatum about what it meant for her after the event?

I would acknowledge her feelings and leave channels of communication open for her to pursue when she's ready. Keep making small gestures that show her you love her.

I wouldn’t try to explain your side of the story, as it doesn’t put you in a particularly positive light. The crux of it is that work and career and relocating has taken up 90 percent of your entire being and your DD has had 10 percent at best.

I would just explain that you’ll always love her and promise to make more time for her going forward.

Or perhaps she doesn't feel like anywhere is "home", geographically or spiritually and she is going to spend a lot of time searching.

All of us make mistakes as parents but I do feel you have not put her first and am shocked that you left her for 6 months.....didn't your parents try to persuade you to bring her over too?

As someone who is a carer for one of my children, I am quite taken aback by how selfish you have been throughout her life.

I don't have as much of an opinion on the frequent moving as it's out of my experience. I can see how it could bring the potential for opportunities but I think it's a difficult thing for a family to do and can see why most wouldn't choose it. It may have been a different experience if she'd had a strong family base through it all though.

While there are no perfect parents and there are many ways we may not always get what our kids need, right. I think your dd is telling you something far greater.

I imagine, the constant instability to follow your career, coupled with your leaving her, likely at a time where she was very aware other children had their mothers with them, meant she felt rejected. Kids internalise this stuff - why wasn't I good enough for my Mum to stay? If I was better would she love me more and want to be with me? Putting your child's other parent down almost always backfires too. You told her all these bad things but then left her with them. Imagine how confusing and scary that is for a child.

I think in a way at this age she probably now has the maturity and autonomy to realise just what her childhood was like compared to others.

Reading this it sounds like you didn't have the emotional capacity to parent and provide stability. Whether you were there for some of the years or not, it sounds marred by your feelings, family upset.

There's nothing that can change the past but what you do now can matter. Acknowledge your grief without loading it onto your dd. Get counselling, explore your attachment styles and regrets in that space.

Next steps with your daughter. I'd write a heartfelt apology without excuses. I like what @pinkingshears wrote. Tell your dd you are sorry that you were not there for her in ways that she needed and in ways you likely don't even know about. Let her know your distance was your issue and not anything to do with her, even though you can see she may have felt a deep rejection. Let her know you have regrets and are committed to moving forward in a way that works for her. Let her know she can tell you anything about her feelings without needing to sensor herself. Let her know that she matters deeply to you and you are here now in ways to support her that you weren't in the past.

@Strangersev you really can't change the past but you can go into the future with your eyes wide open. Not stuck in shame but committed to shifting to be the parent your dd needs now.

Also, I'm sure there are things you did right and there are happy memories too. It's just right now the reality of your daughter's childhood and relationship with you needs to be transparent.

Hoping you and your dd can pave a new way forward.

She hasn’t denied that OP is her mother. She’s saying that they’re not close, and the emotional aspect of ‘mother’ isn’t something she associates with OP. There’s a difference. She’s been honest with OP in response to OP expecting her to feel what OP thinks she should. That OP doesn’t like the truth does not make the daughter unreasonable, or her communicating that truth cruel.

OP is already grown, what balanced view does she have? It’s all about what she felt, what she feels, and what she thinks her daughter should feel (with no consideration of the fact that her daughter is an individual in her own right, with her own experiences and perspective). Besides, her daughter’s view isn’t unbalanced because it isn’t what OP wants it to be. Maturity doesn’t mean ‘agrees with me’.

I think that at this point you should respond and acknowledge the truth in what she says and that you do truly regret some of the things you did and said.

Reiterate that you do view her as a daughter and that this is actually a wake-up call to you, and you can see that you have let your relationship drift.

Say that, going forward, you would like to improve relationships between you, and whilst you accept she might not view you as "mum" in the usual sense, you would very much want to work towards her regarding you as an important part of her life.

"I realised that in the 3 years she has been living in my home country I’ve only seen her 6 times" - I don't think that expecting OP to notice that she's only seen her child twice a year is holding her to a standard of perfection, tbh. The daughter seems like an afterthought for OP, and yet she's stunned and upset at her daughter's very understandable response.

Agreed.
I really think you need to try and see if from her side.

@Strangersev Did you have an absent mother yourself???

I can't understand how your updates are so lacking in empathy for your DDs position...

Ok this one is heavy.

As hard as it'll be, I think you should have a longer face to face talk about all this, be open to hearing her feelings, as hard as it'll be. Try to explain what you can, while not making excuses, you'll need to take a lot of accountability. But importantly, ask your daughter how you can move forward and re-build your relationship, if she is open to that.

Or rather than searching for ‘home’, and/or considering her lack of geographical tie to one place to be something missing in her life, she’s comfortable making it wherever she chooses to. She could genuinely be very happy with her childhood in that aspect.

so you saw her 6 times when she was at uni, and you didn't realise until afterwards?

That tells me all I need to know. My DS1 is at uni and we speak every day and count down to the holidays when he comes home

I think the damage to the DD’s relationship with her mother stems not from the husbands affair but Strangersev taking the job in Singapore

I know I am going to get flamed but I would even go as far as to say I think dragging the dh and dd to another country and then back to a “compromise” country, in some way led to the husband having the affair.

Was any thought given to the consequences of taking a child away from her friends, her home and her school and her way of life in Italy where she was happy and settled and the impact moving her to a culturally different country with new language and new customs to learn then when that doesn’t work out, not returning to Italy but a compromise country 2 years later.

Relationships can be saved but it does involve both parties wanting the same thing. It also involves time and effort and apologising and really understanding what the whole family was put through

The gist of the opening post seems to indicate that even now there seems to be excuses and no real understanding on what affect all this moving around has done to the family unit.

OP, whatever has happened has happened, and you can't go back and fix it. Going forward the best way is to accept that your place in your daughter's life will be only what she wishes it to be. There's no way around it, as much as it hurts. The only thing you can do now is offer a heartfelt apology without any excuses. Even reasons will sound like excuses at this point. Apologize and tell her that you respect her decisions and will always be there for her and stay in touch. If she ever comes around again, and she well might, showing her that her feelings are valid and respecting her decisions is the only way forwards. And it is the way for you to remain in her life. The only thing that will heal this is time. Lots of it.

You can't change the past. If you want to try and rebuild your relationship in the future, you need to focus on how she's feeling, rather than trying to explain or justify your side of the story.

She's still very young. She'll no doubt have a much broader view of things as she matures and experiences life for herself.

I think 16 year old kids being selfish is par for the course.

Parents moving their kids at all, unless absolutely necessary, and certainly over multiple countries, is just selfish.

Agree to disagree.

I've been an expat pre children and whilst my children were babies/toddlers and one of the reasons I returned to the UK was my understanding of "third culture kids". I wanted to avoid that for my children.

Throw into that the instability of the parental relationship and I'm surprised the daughter is as well adjusted as she is.

OP, you need to stop thinking about getting your daughter to see your point of view, and start trying to see hers, if you're going to rebuild your relationship.
You had a lot to deal with when your ex had an affair, but with respect, do you think your daughter is the only person she knows whose dad had an affair? Did any of her friends' mums move to a different country in response? When your world imploded as an adult, you bolted for the safety and security of your parents. When her world imploded while she was still a child, one of her parents ran off to a different country promising to return in six months and never came home. That's a lot of trust to rebuild.

It's possible there were lots of phone calls or other contact - but I do think seeing a child so little and not really realising doesn't speak well of OP.

It reminds me of the many disney dads I've known over the years who aren't really around and have little interest in offspring and then act offended when the kids grow up and reflect back the behavior to them.

Ultimately what has happened has happened. There is no denying that you didn’t prioritise your daughter and you made some bad choices. No excuses will help.

All you can do it be the best mum from now. Stop badmouthing dad. She knows what he did and she is an adult and can make her own decisions. My mum still badmouths my dad 20 years later and it’s not nice at all. Be a good role model, be there for her and if she needs you put her first.

Well you do sound like quite a selfish person, and if that’s what I’m getting from your version of events I can only imagine it’s worse from hers. You can’t turn back time so you can only apologise and try to put things right from now on.

You’ve been incredibly thoughtless and do need to put in more effort (i.e. actually seeing her more regularly, providing opportunities for family time, being unconditionally supportive of her and accepting her feelings without trying to explain yourself), but it’s also likely her feelings may evolve over time. When you’re in your late teens/early 20s you are probably at the peak of not having any sympathy for the shitty decisions your parents have made. I also think being an only child and dealing with this mess would’ve been hard — it’s made easier when you have siblings and a bit of solidarity.

I am sorry that things have turned out this way for your family and that your daughter feels hurt. Hopefully things will shift naturally and she will be able to see things from a different perspective when she has experienced more of the complex complications of life and personal relationships herself. I am not saying she hasn't hard a very hard time. I really feel for her but I think perhaps her father has escaped the wrath he deserves because of the extreme and unfair responsibility placed on women to fix, the mend, to care, to sacrifice to the detriment of their own health and wellbeing. I have no doubt about how low you sunk.

I would just like to point out women are held to much higher standards than men.

Your husband broke the stability and consistency of your family. All events followed on from that. You can not be blamed for a mental health crisis. It would be go to hear from others who have suffered the same after a similar event. Did going away to your mums feel like the only way to survive?

I really hope you can build something positive from this with your daughter.