DD has said she will never view me as a mum

[Strangersev]

Hi all, this could be long and I want to say straight away I know I messed up, I just don’t know how to reply, I’m not looking to minimise my actions.

So background, my ex husband and I both had jobs which involved moving relatively frequently, we had one child, and over the 18 years of her childhood she lived in 5 countries (Canada, Italy, Singapore, Switzerland, and France). I am British, her dad is Italian.

For the first 10 years of her life I’d say we were a very happy family, we lived in Italy for 7 years which provided a real period of stability. We then moved to Singapore, this was more for my sake than my ex husbands but much like Canada in the early years he was willing to make a compromise for my career. However here is where cracks started to form. We lost our way with parenting, would have loud and dramatic fights and often our poor little DD would be witness. I regret this period deeply and 2 years later we moved to Switzerland, this was meant to be a happy middle ground, good career opportunities for us both and DD hadn’t really enjoyed life in Singapore so we thought this may be more familiar.

My ex husband immediately started having an affair, I knew but for 2 years just allowed it to happen. I lied to our DD about him working late when I knew he was with her, I didn’t question or press him on where he was, however 2 years in I came home to them in our bed. This was my breaking point, I spiralled, had a mental breakdown and went into a deep depression. I decided for 6 months I’d move back to my parents home in the uk, my husband and I agreed we would divorce. We spoke to DD and she insisted she wasn’t moving again, she liked Geneva, she was happy at school. I accepted that 6 months apart from her would be a sacrifice worth making. The 6 months passed and I was offered a dream role in Paris. My mental health wasn’t great still, I felt selfishly like I needed to make a decision that was best for me, so I took the job. I asked DD to move with me, she refused. Geneva to Paris was a very manageable distance though, I spent all the holidays with her and we had a lovely time. I do realise now I was saying horrible things about her dad to her during this time and that was immature and cruel of me.

Once DD finished that phase of schooling at 16, her dad got offered a job in Luxembourg which he decided he was going to take. DD was offered Paris or Luxembourg for her diploma years and settled on Paris. I think upon reflection this was very little to do with me and more that for a 16 year old girl Paris is perhaps the more inspirational place to live. I thought her living with me again would be wonderful but the reality was she took 7 subjects for her diploma instead of 6 (wanted to take all her languages) and the time taken up by other elements of the IB diploma meant she was never really home, distance grew between us massively in this time. I started a new relationship which at the time I didn’t feel guilty for as she was really never home in the week and on weekends she’s often want to go to her dads.

DD then took a gap year, and after that went to university in the UK. She is now graduating this summer.

I met up with her for lunch yesterday. She told me about the masters she will be doing, how excited she is to move back to Italy. I realised that in the 3 years she has been living in my home country I’ve only seen her 6 times. She always spends Christmas with her dad, spent summers travelling so it felt difficult to see her. I asked her jokingly if she felt more “British” after her 3 years and she said not at all. She is a third culture kid but If asked to pick she would always say she is Italian. I was hurt by this initially and told her this. She then said “I don’t even really view you as a mum”. This broke my heart I started to cry and she said she was best going.

She messaged me this morning explaining that she can’t view me as a mum as when she was 14-16 I messed with her head. I told her that her dad was evil and cruel yet I left her with him alone. She listed all the ways her dad has been a more selfless parent and more supportive parent.

I am now sad heartbroken and stunned, I don’t really know how to reply? Of course I can and will apologise and I don’t plan to defend my version of events but I feel like I should at least explain?

AIBU to feel like I should explain my side of the story to her? Or have I been ridiculously selfish and this is a result of my own actions?

Any advice much appreciated/

But people have been kind in their replies and given advice on how to move forward.
She has messed up, there are reasons for that, but a child won’t understand those reasons and all the OP can do now is focus on going forward. Not looking back.

Exactly. She is managing to find the positives and finding the right path for her. At the same time clearly explaining to OP that she does not see her as her mum. She must have thought a lot about it. But OP still makes it all about her. Maybe a coping mecanism?

And i would add @Strangersev to that message that she needs to BELIEVE you re here to stay - figuratively. It means that not only you re prepared to put the effort in but that you are are prepared to stay for the long haul.

she may test you in ways you ll find difficult, she may shut you down more times than you know, she may ignore you. But you ll have to keep being there in the background and not just for birthday, xmas and holidays but also little things we like to celebrate / support in everyday life.

she may have a teenage rebellious phase that she couldnt have during your teens because you had “messed with her head”.

if you cant do that, dont be cruel again and dont even try. It would be worse

You seem to be massively in denial about the damage your choices have done, and until you're ready to face that I don't think you can be her mum. You told her how dreadful her father was but left her with him? Showed her she wasn't important enough for you to stay in the country she wanted to live in? Of course she's going to move a lot as an adult, I doubt she has any sense of what it's like to belong.

I'm sorry to be harsh, OP, but if you want any kind of meaningful relationship with your child you are going to have to face some painful realities and show her in your actions that you've changed.

I'm shocked that you were shocked by what she said.

She’s mature because she has had to be. All children need consistent adult care where they feel loved, secure and as though they matter. That’s absolutely basic. It’s great that she appreciates some aspects of her childhood and has benefited from it. But you haven’t provided her with what she most needed, which was decent mothering.

Op sounds like life has been tumultuous for you both but blaming her dad as a reply wasn’t going to go down well. Best of luck in the future, I think the best you can hope for is a distant relationship (I honestly promise I don’t mean that to be harsh)

Not quite. It sounds like she lacked stability growing up, hence why she continues to move around a lot. She’s never properly had a place to call home so is essentially used to being transient.

Imho her moving around now shows that she does what she is used to. Third culture kids find it hard to settle anywhere as nowhere feels like home where they belong. She may be grateful for some of the outcome /languages/ but that doesnt take away the negative impact /feeling like she doesnt have a mother/.

Also teens say the cruellest things they can. Like she doesn't see you as her mother.
You are her mother and she knows it.

when she grows up she will gain a more balanced view.

Be penitent, loving, available, and dignified until then. No slagging him off.

My husband had a peripatetic childhood and indeed feels in some ways he benefited from that, but as a result he has always struggled with meaningful friendships, as he always knew they would never last and he would move again. Always being the new kid is tough going, especially for teenagers. The resilience they are obliged to have can sometimes be a barrier.

Your daughter is clearly fond of SOME of her childhood, but she is telling you loud and clear that when it mattered to her, you let her down. Reading between the lines I’m not sure that you even want to acknowledge that, let alone face it. It really annoys me when people say ‘children are so resilient aren’t they?’ usually as a result of a parent fucking up the kid’s life in some way, and denying responsibility for it. Childish aren’t actually, they just have no choice in the matter. Don’t be that parent.

when she grows up she will gain a more balanced view.

There is absolutely no guarantee of that.

I agree with this entirely.

Reading your OP, I understand and empathise with your daughter and believe explaining/defending will just widen the gulf between you.

Her words may have bruised you, but seeing your daughter 6 times in 3 years does not say close mother/daughter relationship.

I hope in time you can work this out together or at the very least, maintain a cordial relationship.

Maybe try acting more like a loving Aunt. Go to see her as much as is comfortable for her. Spoil her (and her future partner and children) as much as she lets you. Step back from assuming a motherly relationship with her. She doesn’t feel its authentic or safe. But you might be able to forge something maternal adjacent.

As for her repeating her peripatetic childhood—don’t kid yourself. I knew a man who was forced to travel between his parents houses as a child. He and his sibling basically were unable to make a secure connection with others or with a place if residence and one ended up living in hotels so he could move every few days. While my patient had a disasterously fragile and collapsed life.

I suspect the opposite.

AIBU to feel like I should explain my side of the story to her? Or have I been ridiculously selfish and this is a result of my own actions?

Well, you've explained your side here and it doesn't sound great. I would go for option 2. It doesn't mean that you can't or won't have a relationship with her going forward - but it's unlikely to be the typical-mother dynamic because of the damage that's been done in the past.

Honestly this sounds like my childhood. You and your Ex fucked up big style you more for leaving, badmouthing and still prioritising your career by going to paris. You even centred yourself when you made a fuss about how dhe relates to nationality. You're now in the finding out stage. There is no explaining this away you just have to apologise and accept she might not ever change her feelings

You want to explain to make you feel better.

She doesn't want or need that.

You'd be better off focusing on how to move forward with her - stay in her life and try to build a stronger bond going forward.

I also tend to think that her still choosing to make moves as an adult (doing her undergrad in a country she’d never lived in and now moving again for her masters) suggests she is actually fond of the childhood we gave her.

I'm sure she enjoyed aspects of her childhood - I'm sure there are advantages to it as well as obvious disadvantages.

Not sure you'd really get far trying to point any of that out to her or trying to take credit - even to me she seems to have been an after thought to her parents.

Did you and you ex move have an impact on who she is and what she chooses to do - well of course your her parents - doesn't mean she got what she needed or what she wanted from you

She may well mellow her stance to you as she ages or it may harden - I think a lot depends on how you proceed from this point onwards.

This - my parents divorced when I was a small child (4 yrs). My mother didn’t want custody and my father did. Then he joined the army and was in the far east until I was 14. I saw my mother about 8 times a year and my father on leaves (& one trip to Singapore. I lived with my grandparents. I am fiercely independent but also have major trust issues all my life. My father has now died and I have been non contact with my mother for about 25 yrs. I sort of accepted the situation when I was a child but it really hit me after the births of my own DC. I couldn’t imagine leaving them in the way my parents did

It doesn’t sound like she said it to hurt or attack you, she simply expressed the reason why she can’t offer you what it is you’re looking at her to provide. It is what it is.

It doesn’t matter that your ex wasn’t a perfect parent or a bad husband to you. He was a constant parent to her, and a better one than you were. Your reasons for your actions matter deeply for you, but they don’t lesson or negate the impact your choices had on her. She doesn’t owe you a relationship now that you failed to form and/or nurture in her formative years. The damage is done, and that’s something you would be wise to come to terms with.

when she grows up she will gain a more balanced view.

She has balanced view.

She can acknowledge some of the of the positives her experiences gave her.

She doesn't feel she has a relationship with her mother.

That's pretty balanced.

I completely understand why both of my parents behaved the way they did. I have sympathy for each of them and have done for many years. That didn't undo the damage that was caused though. It didn't manifest relationships that were never formed.

Sorry to be harsh OP, but it really seems like you passed up your best opportunity to make amends with your daughter when she was living with you from 16 to 18.

Saying she was ‘too busy’ with her IB to have a relationship with you, so you just got yourself a boyfriend and left her to it, feels like a very self-serving and simplistic version of events. In reality it sounds like you just continued living your own life, exactly as you had previously, regardless of whether she was there or not. She must feel as though she’s never, ever been a priority for you.

From everything you’ve said, your daughter’s assessment of her childhood and parental relationships seems pretty fair and accurate. She sounds hurt and angry as well, which surely can’t be that much of a surprise to you?

In your shoes I wouldn’t be trying to ‘explain’ anything; I’d be apologising unreservedly, allowing her to express all her feelings without judgement, and trying to build new bridges in the hope of having a positive relationship with her in the future. I hope you can find a way back to each other.

@Strangersev you reap what you sow!! you and your ex husband have both been very selfish over the years of your poor daughter's childhood! not surprised at all that she does not see you as her mum. also quite surprised that she seems to see her dad as her dad though! all sympathy to child you gave birth to!

I think, @Strangersev you should be commended on your self-reflection and openness to other viewpoints.

I also think that this is only the beginning of a process where you and your DD start to unpick, re-evaluate and start to rebuild.

You may find you need to offer her apologies, and possibly some explanations as this process develops. And you may find it surprisingly cathartic to take responsibility for your past choices and move on to a new stage with you DD.

I wish you every success.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I suspect she's happy to move countries so much because she feels lost/ like she doesn't have a real home. I think just apologise, support her and go out of your way moving forwards to show her you care. That's all you can do. You can't change the past, so look to a future where you can build a new relationship together.

Also don't underestimate the deep shame that children feel (but can't articulate) when the person who is supposed to put them first leaves them. It doesn't matter whether that's fair or rational, that's what they experience, and it never goes away. "I am such a bad kid that even my mum doesn't want me". I'm glad that she's been able to build enough self belief that she can be honest with you, OP.