DD has said she will never view me as a mum

[Strangersev]

Hi all, this could be long and I want to say straight away I know I messed up, I just don’t know how to reply, I’m not looking to minimise my actions.

So background, my ex husband and I both had jobs which involved moving relatively frequently, we had one child, and over the 18 years of her childhood she lived in 5 countries (Canada, Italy, Singapore, Switzerland, and France). I am British, her dad is Italian.

For the first 10 years of her life I’d say we were a very happy family, we lived in Italy for 7 years which provided a real period of stability. We then moved to Singapore, this was more for my sake than my ex husbands but much like Canada in the early years he was willing to make a compromise for my career. However here is where cracks started to form. We lost our way with parenting, would have loud and dramatic fights and often our poor little DD would be witness. I regret this period deeply and 2 years later we moved to Switzerland, this was meant to be a happy middle ground, good career opportunities for us both and DD hadn’t really enjoyed life in Singapore so we thought this may be more familiar.

My ex husband immediately started having an affair, I knew but for 2 years just allowed it to happen. I lied to our DD about him working late when I knew he was with her, I didn’t question or press him on where he was, however 2 years in I came home to them in our bed. This was my breaking point, I spiralled, had a mental breakdown and went into a deep depression. I decided for 6 months I’d move back to my parents home in the uk, my husband and I agreed we would divorce. We spoke to DD and she insisted she wasn’t moving again, she liked Geneva, she was happy at school. I accepted that 6 months apart from her would be a sacrifice worth making. The 6 months passed and I was offered a dream role in Paris. My mental health wasn’t great still, I felt selfishly like I needed to make a decision that was best for me, so I took the job. I asked DD to move with me, she refused. Geneva to Paris was a very manageable distance though, I spent all the holidays with her and we had a lovely time. I do realise now I was saying horrible things about her dad to her during this time and that was immature and cruel of me.

Once DD finished that phase of schooling at 16, her dad got offered a job in Luxembourg which he decided he was going to take. DD was offered Paris or Luxembourg for her diploma years and settled on Paris. I think upon reflection this was very little to do with me and more that for a 16 year old girl Paris is perhaps the more inspirational place to live. I thought her living with me again would be wonderful but the reality was she took 7 subjects for her diploma instead of 6 (wanted to take all her languages) and the time taken up by other elements of the IB diploma meant she was never really home, distance grew between us massively in this time. I started a new relationship which at the time I didn’t feel guilty for as she was really never home in the week and on weekends she’s often want to go to her dads.

DD then took a gap year, and after that went to university in the UK. She is now graduating this summer.

I met up with her for lunch yesterday. She told me about the masters she will be doing, how excited she is to move back to Italy. I realised that in the 3 years she has been living in my home country I’ve only seen her 6 times. She always spends Christmas with her dad, spent summers travelling so it felt difficult to see her. I asked her jokingly if she felt more “British” after her 3 years and she said not at all. She is a third culture kid but If asked to pick she would always say she is Italian. I was hurt by this initially and told her this. She then said “I don’t even really view you as a mum”. This broke my heart I started to cry and she said she was best going.

She messaged me this morning explaining that she can’t view me as a mum as when she was 14-16 I messed with her head. I told her that her dad was evil and cruel yet I left her with him alone. She listed all the ways her dad has been a more selfless parent and more supportive parent.

I am now sad heartbroken and stunned, I don’t really know how to reply? Of course I can and will apologise and I don’t plan to defend my version of events but I feel like I should at least explain?

AIBU to feel like I should explain my side of the story to her? Or have I been ridiculously selfish and this is a result of my own actions?

Any advice much appreciated/

You keep telling her how awful your ex husband was. That may be true, but that is between you and him. You both have a responsibility as parents to your child, and the parenting bit you didn’t do. He did more, which is what she is telling you. But you just keep talking about yourself and your feelings.

I won’t say what I really want ti about the pair of you but you reap what you sow.

Keep in touch and maybe the relationship will improve.

But you never prioritised the child you chose to bring into the world. Nor did her father, but this isn’t about him.

Sounds to me like she had a very unsettled upbringing with the constant moving and also your divorce. To me it sounds like she’s chosen to pin this on you as mostly being your fault, rather than accept that you were both to “blame” for this reality. That said - it does partly depend on the extent to which you messed with her head - ie badmouthed her father during those years.

She messaged me this morning explaining that she can’t view me as a mum as when she was 14-16 I messed with her head. I told her that her dad was evil and cruel yet I left her with him alone

I’d reply that she’s perfectly entitled to think of you however she sees best and that you know that you weren’t a great parent during those years. Accept that how you spoke of her father was wrong but that you harboured a lot of ill will towards him because of his two year long affair. But you were wrong to let that ill feeling spill out into your relationship. Just say you hope you can still be friends going forwards.

She’s still young, in her early 20s. As the years and decades roll by she may view some things differently.

You can't be surprised - you were barely there for her.

I don't know if this will help but, for different reasons, I felt similarly towards my dad.

When I was 25, he apologised for his part in my early life problems and the resulting trauma and this made a huge difference to how I felt about him and our relationship. He didn't make excuses but did explain it and, tbh, I knew the reasons really but him acknowledging it was important from the perspective that he took responsibility.

He died when I was 37. I will be honest and say he never felt like 'dad' because so many years had been lost and the foundations of a father/daughter relationship just hadn't been there but we were close for those 12 years and and I did value him.

Bottom line is, you can't change the past - the decisions that you made or the things you said and did but you can build a relationship with her going forwards.

In contrast, I went nc with my mother 6 months before my dad died (they were divorced by then). She never took responsibility, a relationship wasn't salvageable and, tbh, she had no interest in one. I have no idea if she is even still alive or not.

Sorry op if this sounds harsh, but you didnt once put her first growing up. You reap what you sow.

You sound very emotionally immature - dramatic fights, messing with her head by badmouthing her dad, prioritising relationships and work over her, crying and taking it personally that her nationality isn't the one you want. She can't see you as a mum figure as you don't behave like one.

You don't need to tell her your side of the story, she was there, she lived through it.
Just apologise and focus on building the relationship you have.

Somebody up thread said that your dh was “a more selfless and supportive parent”.
Personally I don’t think having an affair when you have a child in the mix is selfless.
That’s what your dh did. He upended the family and the relationship in the first place.
I don’t see why you get all the blame @Strangersev
The betrayal.
And in your bed.
Is your dd aware of the affair, it’s length etc ?
If not she should be.

Yes he did do more between the ages 12-16 (?) but a big reason of that was because her dad acted like a massive dick with his two year long affair.

Sounds a bit to me that she’s being cruel to her mum now as revenge for the perceived cruelness of her not being there for that period. I think with time she may forgive her that, given the circumstances.

I dont view my mum as a mum.
We was raised by nan or sitters then my eldest sister took over.
Mother would try and keep us busy with activities we didn't like so we didnt notice her not being around.
Constantly moving home.
Constant lies.
We didn't see or feel she was a mother she knew nothing about us really.
And wonders why we have no contact with her well its because we dont know her.
Shes just a woman that gave birth to us.
She wanted the benefits but not the job.

I don’t think anyone has prioritised that girl really, though her dad is perhaps trying to now. I don’t think you’re the victim you seem to think you are.

On the plus side she sounds incredibly switched on and mature, so that’s something.

All of this. Can you really not see why she would feel that way? She's simply being honest.

She sounds very self reliant because she's had to be. None of her parents seem to have prioritised her. I'd be glad she's still having a relationship with any of you tbh.

Gosh OP - you have messed up big time but I think you know that. The only course of action is a full apology and a request that you want to build a meaningful relationship going forward.
BTW my dad was horrible to my mum. She sometimes tells me stuff. I get it - she wants to off load- but he’s my dad and I don’t want to hear it. Your dd isn’t the person for you to criticise your ex to.

I'm not going to judge or criticise, just do what you can to salvage what you can from your relationship, support her, apologise, put in a ton of effort, put her first, show her you will do anything for her.

It's not a competition about who is the worst parent.
All that is irrelevant to the daughter.
Why would she want to know about her father's affair fgs?? More immaturity and selfishness.

In time, if she gets there, she will ask for your version of events. But for now, the best thing you can do is just apologize and try to see her point of view. Anything else will sound like excuses. The fact is that you put your needs before hers. No reason you can give her will offset that.

At least you are willing to apologise and own it. Having a mother leave in your teenage years can be very damaging, along with slagging off her father. I had this too. Your daughter is rightly setting firm boundaries and you need to respect this but also work at repairing the damage.

It's irrelevant, really.

What is missing here is not facts and details but the parent/child relationship.

I'm sure DD is aware of it (maybe not all the details) because the OP says she said horrible things about her dad to DD during the France / Geneva period - I expect this will have included his affair. DD is probably sick of hearing about it! Don't mention it again OP, just apologise and commit to building a better relationship in the future.

Well, I feel sorry for you that the stability - years in Italy and an Italian father - has given her a sense of belonging and an identity that you don’t share. I suppose in retrospect you must realise you can’t choose a job over a child and not pay the price in terms of your relationship.

The advice you have been given to be consistent and show up now for her is excellent. I think she may understand your choices better when she is a mother. Don’t ask her to understand now, just apologise for your shortcomings and tell her that you love her.

Whyherewego · Today 12:03

Acknowledge her feelings. Acknowledge how hard it must have been for her. Apologise for your part of the story.
That's all you can do now.
Leave the door open for her to have a relationship with you. Send her messages or whatever and let her know that you are thinking of her on a regular basis. Make an effort to support her decision around moving to Italy, maybe visit her ?
The situation for her seems very hard to have grown up in. I can see how it was hard for you too. It is what it is. All you can do now is acknowledge your role and move forward

@Strangersev This is the best response on this thread. Like your DD, my DC grew up living in several different countries as DH was frequently transferred by his employers, and as adults, both have chosen to live overseas as expats. It is unfortunate that your DD had to witness the fallout from your marriage failing, but that can't be changed.

Stop beating yourself over things that you cannot change and remember that not all mother/daughter relationships will follow conventional expectations. 💐

By the OP’s account she spent the period during which she was working in Paris and her daughter was at school in Geneva telling her foul things about her father, so I imagine the daughter is perfectly au fait with her father’s infidelities.

I would contact her and say:
'I am sorry I cried when you spoke to me. I really appreciate that you did so. When you were a child I did what I thought was best. I now see that it was NOT best for you. I wish I could change the past but I know I cannot & you have every right to feel that I didn't 'Mother' you appropriately. I'm listening. I'd like the opportunity to build a supportive relationship with you in whatever way I can now. Despite having a disrupted childhood, with separated & sometimes absent parents, you are an intelligent, accomplished person. You are an absolute credit to yourself. I love you and hope that I can work to earn your trust in the future.'

Not perfect, but I'd include at least some of that. Write a letter by hand that your Dd can look at if & when she wants. Give her some space to process it.

It doesn’t sound like she was trying to hurt you - she was being honest.
I think you must know you were less than ideal parent to her. She sounds to be doing really well despite all she’s been through.

I think all you can do is acknowledge your mistakes and apologize. It’s up to her if she is willing to accept it or not, but the fact that she is still meeting you means that she is willing to have you in her life in some capacity.

Sorry OP, I know these replies are harsh, but you have to realize that you prioritize your career over your child’s stability and you did leave her with a parent you bad talked to her.

It sounds like you both chose careers before her. But you had a breakdown when she was a teenage due to her dad’s behaviour. You were probably unable to care for at that time. Yes bad mouthing him wasn’t wise. But he has provided her with stability when you couldn’t. It didn’t make him a great person but he was there, when you couldn’t be. As she gets older she may understand the only thing that will build your relationship is making time for her and communication. She is allowed to feel Italian she has lived in multiple countries and is probably unsure where she actually belongs.