AIBU to be worried about my son’s marriage dynamics?

[MyCyanShaker]

I've noticed some concerning dynamics in my son's marriage. When I call him, he'll often rush off the phone as soon as his wife comes home from work or starts talking to him. Sometimes she'll even answer his phone when he's not around. When I offer to get him something, he'll mention what she'd like too, without even asking me if I want to get something for her. It feels like she's dominating the conversation and possibly even controlling him.

My son works overnights, and I rarely get to talk to him. When I do, he often sounds agitated, even when I ask him simple questions. I've tried texting him to check in, but he doesn't always respond. He's always been a bit independent, but lately, I've felt like he's becoming more distant. We've always been close, but now it feels like I'm struggling to connect with him.

They've been married for 5 years, and they've been together for 9 years before that, so I thought they had a strong foundation. I'm worried about his well-being and feel like his wife might be isolating him from our family. We've always been a close-knit family, and it's hard for me to see him pulling away. He's always been closest to his younger brother, with whom he shares similar interests and personality traits. They're close in a way that he and his middle brother aren't. Given this, I'm thinking of asking his younger brother to check in with him and see if he's okay. Maybe his brother can get a better sense of what's going on and offer some support.

I'm torn between being a concerned mum and respecting their marriage. I don't want to overstep or interfere, but at the same time, I want to make sure my son is happy and healthy. Has anyone else dealt with similar concerns about marriage dynamics? Should I be worried, or am I just being a concerned mum?

Just like my mil.
She was very emotionally manipulative, guilt tripping , playing the victim , outright lying and played many games.
Caused many rows in the early days between me and dh , but brought me and dh closer as we worked through it as a team.
Other sil stopped interacting with mil many years ago …. One of her own daughters went no contact years ago and bill’s relationship with his partner isn’t so good..

Don't call your son, wait and see when he calls you, then you will know if your son wants to talk 3 days a week or one or none...if his wife is at work she can't control him calling you. So my advise is do this and see how ofton he chooses to call. If he doesn't call then you need to see that you are calling too ofton, it doesn't mean he doesn't love you it's just that he has things he needs to do in the couple of hours he has before work so calling every other day can be too much.
You talk alot about the controlling wife but I'm guessing you won't beable to let him call you, you will call him first, when you do then you should realise who is the controlling one.

Quite. I’d also like to see the source data and the definitions used in the self reported surveys. It oks a lot like the “charity” data often promoted by MRAs plopping onto threads here to claim women are as violent than men. They use data which excludes sexual violence and includes self defence as violence against men. So a rape victim’s sexual assault is excluded but her rapist is a “victim” if she fights back.

Also worth noting that men experiencing domestic violence are proportionately more likely to be experiencing violence at the hands of male partners.

Men undoubtedly experience domestic violence and sexual assault - lets not pretend that the bulk of DV and sexual assault isn't perpetrated by men.

A busy couple working long hours on conflicting shifts, precious little free time together and three days a week its interrupted by a full grown adult demanding that limited time and use it to ask things which simply annoy the son.

Occam’s razor and all that.

The OP is much more bitchy that the posters that are telling her that she is being unreasonable. She has no self-awareness and has the cheek to call her DIL a princess.

I'm always wary of posters that refer to women as 'females'. It's terminology used by inadequate men and incels.

The tone of this post is so similar to the poster a while ago who was upset about being asked to get DIL some car boot items, and the other poster who was upset her DIL thanked her mother at her wedding. Another poster mentioned the first similarity.

I think the son works nights so when his wife comes in that is probably the only time they have together. Completely unnecessary to speak on the phone 3 times a week when you live 13 hours apart. You have nothing to say 3 times a week on a call. Must be incredibly draining. OP also dislikes the DIL and is jealous. What a toxic dynamic! Who would want this constant noise in their daily life?

Just in case you’re unclear about only seeing your son with his wife:
My dh didn’t even like me leaving the room when in his mothers presence ( which I thought was silly) but he was afraid of what crazy thing she would say when there weren’t any witnesses

I think you may well be right that your instincts are telling you that DIL is a strong, assertive character and rather bossy. I understand that it’s then very easy for a mum’s thoughts to run on further to thinking she is fully controlling, coercive and isolating her son from his family. You may be right, so make it so that he can turn to you if necessary,

And I want to help but I don’t know how to help.
Let me just give a few thoughts which might help.

Remember that you have no evidence that she is corercive. You don’t know their relationship very well. Your heart doesn’t want to see them as a couple because you sense something is off. Even so, not thinking of them as a couple doesn’t help your son. He has said as much so believe him. Trust him. Trying to hold on to him as if he’s a single man doesn’t help his marriage. It alienates DIL. And demeans him. Makes things worse for him.

DIL has spidey senses too, just as many as you have. And she may well also let her thoughts run away with her and exaggerate the fact that you don’t like her and won’t accept her as your son’s wife. So now, the hill you have to climb to get to know them as a couple, is even steeper.
Send her the grey mug OP! Every time you buy him a shirt, buy her something too. See something you think she might like and send it to her without sending him anything. Act towards her as if you fully accept the marriage and as if you like her, appreciate her and value her. As if she were your very own daughter and not the enemy. That’s what he wants. It may well make his life easier ….and that’s what you want.

Your son will always be your precious baby and you will never forsake him or betray him. That’s normal. He also knows that. It’s hard to get to grips with the fact that they are in their 40’s and no longer in need of your protection. Remember that he’s always been independent. Remember that he chooses to stay with her. Remember that he has asked you to treat them as a couple. He hasn’t asked you for help so you can’t rescue him. But you can quietly understand the situation he is in, whatever it is, and go along with what he says. Maybe that’s the way he wants you to help him for now. Do it so that he knows he can rely on you for the future. He may want to end his marriage further down the line, but for now there is no reason to think that he is asking anything of you except for you to understand, send her gifts too and value her. Maybe she complains to him about you not treating her like a DIL. So you can help him by giving her nothing to complain about in that respect

Try to find something about her that you like. Even just a little bit. You have to grow to love her. Force yourself to love her. Your son loves her OP. He’s chosen to stay with her so make it easier for him, not harder. Say to yourself….I love her for her sense of style/her ability to cook nice food for DS/her outgoing nature/her wish for me to send her gifts too. Find one tiny little thing you can love her for and build on that. When you send her a gift, put a card in it and write something nice for her to receive .eg I saw this, thought of you and think the colour will suit you, really hope you like it. xx
Be thoughtful about her no matter how hard.

Ask them if there is a time you can face-time once a week. It helps to see facial expressions. See if they are open to that. They have very busy lives. Let him call you. You feel frantic inside about him, but just reduce the number of calls. Remember, he can always call you if he needs help. Trust that he knows what he’s doing. Keep the calls light hearted.

Never criticise her in front of him, or in front of others. Just tell him you love him, that you understand that life isn’t easy with his work schedule and that you are always there for him and your DIL too. Reassure him that things will get better in time.

Yes, of course encourage your other son to visit. Give him gifts to take for each of them. Don’t make it a rescue mission though. Just an opportunity for them to re-connect and have a lovely time. Remember that if your son does confide in his brother about something , you may not be told anyway, so don’t probe.

Finally remember that sons never want to tell their mums the bad stuff. They want to protect them from it. They hate hurting their mums. Be respectful of that. He hasn’t given up on his marriage yet, so you shouldn’t either. Trust him to do the right thing.

This.

Every TWO days??? Once a week, OP, or you’re being intrusive.

People are giving you honest feedback to your question, and you obviously don’t like the answers your receiving. Your responses are quite aggressive and you clearly just want people to agree with you.

Maybe reflect on that, as this could be how you come across on the phone to your son. And maybe he just can’t be bothered listening.

And I completely agree that your son is your primary family/priority, but his wife is his main priority now. And you have to accept that.

Would it be that much of a problem if you did get her something?

I mean this with kindness, but your posts come across as quite resentful of her, and if we can see it, I’m sure your son and daughter-in-law can see it too. This will naturally drive a wedge between you.

How powerful a sign would be if you bought your daughter-in-law a gift next time you saw her, especially if you’ve not bought your son one.

I’m a mum of boys…though I haven’t got to the stage of adult sons yet.

I have a good relationship with my mother in law, though we have had occasional rumbles through the years. My husband phones his parents once a week, sometimes he speaks for a few minutes,sometimes he speaks for longer.

My mother in law picks me up occasional gifts (if’s a lovely feeling, as it’s her way of telling me she has thought of me). My father-in-law is more likely to get my husband occasional gifts as they have similar tastes - beer, books.

I have no idea what’s happened in your relationship with your son and daughter-in-law but my gut feeling is you need to a) keep a respectful distance and b) start working on a relationship with your daughter in law

OP needs to be careful. I put huge effort into trying to buid up s relationship eith my MIL over ten years despite all the signs she didn’t like me and wasn’t interested. I included her in lots of things etc. eventually her true colours showed when I was diagnosed with cancer and not once did she ask how I was or offer to help - fair enough not for me, but my kids (young teens) needed support and she could’ve helped them so much. All she was interested in was her grip on her son - regular phonecalls and family meetups where her sons but not DILs invited etc. After my illness I drew a line and went NC. Predictably, with no effort from me and none from her son, she lost contact with her son and GC.

As others have said, Groundhog Day here. We had an almost identical post except for some story about buying an item at a “yard sale” for DIL a couple of months ago.

And there we have it ...........
I'm sorry but in terms of priorities you drop way down the pecking order once he is married. His wife and family are now the priority.

I find this thread an eye opener.
Children are not possessions. As parents we have responsibility to help them grow in the hope they can become happy independent adults.
When they are adults they have their own lives and as parents then the biggest gifts.we can give are support as needed / requested and our own independence.

OP with respect your approach to your adult son seems over involved at best and completely overbearing at worst. How do you think your DIL feels ? Leave them be. Of course your son must prioritise his wife, she is his chosen life partner. You are not, you are his mum. You need to cut them both some more slack and pull back for everyone's sake. Even if she were controlling nothing you are doing now would be helping with that.

How full is your OWN life? Be you - not a mother. There is a whole world out there outside of your family. Go and live it. Become an interesting person in your own right. Youve done your job: given them independent lives. Enjoy your achievement and step back.

I’d love to hear the son and DIL’s version of this.

I don’t think I’d have something to say to my parents if they called every 2 days. That’s not to criticise those who do, it’s just that we are not close enough to maintain a “friendship” relationship. We do love one another, it’s just that we don’t have everyday shared interests.

Your DIL doesn't like you. Your son is aiming to keep her happy at all times. You are collateral damage

My advice is to make friends with DIL. Take her out for lunch. Have her over for coffee. Really try to make her like you with zero toxicity or passive aggressive comments. Be nice.

Do this for a year and see how things improve with your relationship with your son

A couple of years back someone posted a link to an article written by a psychologist. It was about parents whose children had gone NC and drew from an online forum where those parents were posting for support and had attracted many like-minded people trying to force their children to have the relationship they wanted with them. It highlighted how many of them displayed narcissistic traits, still expecting themselves to be higher priority to their children, blaming their DIL/SIL for their children cutting them off, accusing them of DV etc. Fundamentally not one of those parents was able to recognise or understand that their child had cut them off because of THEIR behaviour, not the SIL/DIL's. It was really illuminating and it seems that OP would fit that personality.
I wish I could find it again.

The tone is also identical to this one from last week. Presumably one of the other unlucky sons. Same refusal to respond to anything other than supportive posts. Same dense, robotic repetition of the situation.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5350977-aibu-for-deleting-the-fb-comment?page=1

why can’t he just say babe I’ll be with you in 10 minutes.

Because he doesn't WANT to say that! He wants to talk to his wife when she gets home from work! More than he wants to talk to you! Why are you so determined not to understand this?

Your son is your family. Your son’s wife is now his main family. How much effort are you putting into with his wife because it sounds like you don’t want to include and don’t like her. It is what it is. He has chosen this woman to be his primary family now and they will likely have family and become close as unit than he is with you. That’s how life works. The dynamics change naturally. You need to welcome her, make her feel loved and part of your wider family. The two units can overlap and become strongly bonded but you will have to make the effort. Saying she is not your family but he is is not the way to go. He loves her she loves him and you do just make him chose or get caught I. The middle . You will lose out and this woman will likely be the mother to your grandchildren so treat her right!

Maybe something to do with your refusal to acknowledge his 14 years old relationship.

Also the same as the mad mother's day one, where the OP was upset that her DIL hadn't treated her the same as her own mother, failed to see it was her son that hadn't treated her that way.
And the wedding one where the DIL had thanked her single parent mum for bringing her up. But didn't gush over her, who hadn't brought her up. Again, couldn't see the son was the one who should have said it, if it needed saying.

The madness of needing the validation from your own child...