AIBU to be worried about my son’s marriage dynamics?

[MyCyanShaker]

I've noticed some concerning dynamics in my son's marriage. When I call him, he'll often rush off the phone as soon as his wife comes home from work or starts talking to him. Sometimes she'll even answer his phone when he's not around. When I offer to get him something, he'll mention what she'd like too, without even asking me if I want to get something for her. It feels like she's dominating the conversation and possibly even controlling him.

My son works overnights, and I rarely get to talk to him. When I do, he often sounds agitated, even when I ask him simple questions. I've tried texting him to check in, but he doesn't always respond. He's always been a bit independent, but lately, I've felt like he's becoming more distant. We've always been close, but now it feels like I'm struggling to connect with him.

They've been married for 5 years, and they've been together for 9 years before that, so I thought they had a strong foundation. I'm worried about his well-being and feel like his wife might be isolating him from our family. We've always been a close-knit family, and it's hard for me to see him pulling away. He's always been closest to his younger brother, with whom he shares similar interests and personality traits. They're close in a way that he and his middle brother aren't. Given this, I'm thinking of asking his younger brother to check in with him and see if he's okay. Maybe his brother can get a better sense of what's going on and offer some support.

I'm torn between being a concerned mum and respecting their marriage. I don't want to overstep or interfere, but at the same time, I want to make sure my son is happy and healthy. Has anyone else dealt with similar concerns about marriage dynamics? Should I be worried, or am I just being a concerned mum?

If course it's my perspective, I wouldn't be trotting out someone else's would I.

Agree, but have seen many many times that this does not happen. I have 2 brothers and my mum rarely hears or speaks to either of them we are a close family and all meet at our mothers at least monthly so she sees them but any contact in between is generally through the wives. A bit sad maybe but just the way it is

So do I. My point was, why do we apply this rule differently depending on the sex of the adult child? A daughter who goes round to help her mum every day, leaving her husband to watch the children, for example, would be regarded as a good daughter, and if her husband complained, he would be selfish and useless. A man who did the same for his mother would be regarded as inappropriately putting her first, and his mother regarded as demanding and selfish. The narrative is that the mother of an adult son is should step back and be replaced by his wife. The mother of an adult daughter can continue to stay exactly where she is, while her SiL takes up a different place.

That completely ignores the very well researched phenomenon that female partners typically do far more household labour and caring anyway, even if they work full time. There’s totally different dynamics at play.

Fair point.

His wife will just start talking to him when she comes home even if he’s on the phone

Gosh, how outrageous that a woman will speak to her husband in her own home..

he has to jump up and go instead of saying he’s on the phone

It fits your narrative to assume that he doesn't want to do this and is being controlled. But perhaps he, heaven forbid, actually wants to speak to his wife.

Why is she automatically expecting equal treatment to my son who I raised or inserting herself into a question I didn’t directly ask her?

The question is, why are you so intent on ensuring she doesn't receive equal treatment?! Why are you putting her in a position where she feels she has to insert herself rather you do inviting her into it?!?

OMG! Given your attitude, I am amazed you get any visits at all! Also, in this time of many marriages ending in divorce, you should be glad your son and his wife are happy.
If I were your son, you wouldn’t see me for dust!
You are a bitter, jealous woman. You have ideas well above your station. Of course your daughter-in-law is your son’s priority. If she weren’t, he shouldn’t have married her!
Take a good look at yourself.
You are his mother, yes, and always will be. Your son now has a wife whom he loves. He now has his own family and you are JUST HIS MOTHER! Your job as a mother is done and you have to accept that. Be thankful.
If they have children, if you aren’t careful, you won’t see them. In fact, carry on as you are, and you won’t see ANY of them, least of all your son. You are already criticising his wife. Why on earth shouldn’t she answer their phone? Why shouldn’t she chip in when you and he are on the phone? My (thankfully fully functional) family does this all the time. One-to-one calls are a rarity as anyone around chips in, and I LOVE it.
You need to have a good, long, honest look at yourself. You are selfish and needy, almost to the point of obsession. I suggest you forge a life for yourself and leave them alone.
The looser the reins, the more he will come back. It’s in your hands, but you will have to work hard, and mean it.

Well yes, but that's a problem with men, isn't it? Yet the go to response is to blame the women in the scenario. The tropes of controlling DiL who never let's him see his mum, versus the needy mother with the unhealthy attachment who won't stay in her lane. If men are giving too little, that's what needs to change, not this constant framing of women as rivals for his attention.

But you are assuming it's the being married that is making him behave this way? And also I would always get my child's partner a small something if I was getting a souvenir etc from my child but calling them to ask what they want seems a bit intense/ OTT anyway

It totally depends on the family though.
when my granny needed the new bungalow ( my dads mum)
it was his sisters Husband who did it
Her own dd couldn’t paint (illness)
And though my own mum was very close to her mum - she used ferry them both about - in my 2 grans became friends and sometimes we all had holidays together- as did my ex and 3 granny’s (one was a step granny).
happy families pull together.
They don’t compete- like op is doing, with her DIL.

@MyCyanShaker sorry, but I started with sympathy for you, but your replies make me think you are hard work.

It's not about you.

And yes, just buy her a bloody souvenir mug. Or ideally, don't buy anyone crappy souvenirs.

oh my word. step back. he is an adult, and if he needs help and wants it from you or his bro he will ask.

I wanted to offer a different perspective on the phone call thing: I speak to my mum regularly (several times a week) because she makes such a fuss if I don't and I loathe and detest it. I try to limit the calls to five minutes any way I can. It is not because my DH is weird and controlling, it is because I find speaking to my mum on the phone a chore.

I don't think his wife is the problem. They sound happy.
Some people don't like talking on the phone much. And he probably gets off the phone quick when she gets home because he wants to talk to her.
Maybe just about her day or what they need to pick up from the shop or whatever but that's normal behaviour. Thats not him being controlled.
Also with him working nights I bet they try to fit in as much as they can when they are both home before he goes to work.
This just seems like its your sons choice to not have as much contact with you. Which although is sad and hard for you. Its very common. Especially as people get older .

Why not say to him, we never get chance for a good chat these days. I’d love to get more than a snatched conversation. When is a good time to call so we can have a proper catch up.

he has to put his wife/kids first, that’s life but he should make time for a call once a week where you have his attention. Why not agree a time each week, when his wife is busy?

You need to drop the gifts thing, you’re driving a wedge as it’s clearly upsetting him. Ask him what they’d both like, it will be far better for your relationship

He didn’t just move away from his home town though did he?

He moved from his home country.

His home continent.

His home hemisphere.

If he had been a friend of Elon Musk he would probably have taken the next step too……

Firstly, why would you buy an out of-the blue gift for him and not buy her anything? If I saw something that I wanted to buy for one of my daughters outside their birthdays etc, I would always buy a small gift for their husband too. It needn’t be much. For example, in your case, if you buy say, a shirt for your son, you could get a clothes token for his wife, or flowers, just something so she doesn’t feel left out. (I can sense your disapproval of that from here (!) but at least consider it). My motto is to treat everyone the same. Your son and daughter-in-law are a PAIR! Remember that, and you’re halfway there.
Are you sure your other son’s calls are not just duty calls? I suspect he senses you would kick off if he didn’t toe the line. Once a day is far too often! There is absolutely no need for him to do this and you shouldn’t expect it.
As for chipping in on phone calls, what’s wrong with that? My calls to my family are seldom one-to-one, although they might start that way! The only really private phone calls we have is to arrange Christmas and Birthday presents.

You are in severe danger of being someone who is only visited out of duty. You really do need to realise that, as we grow older, our place in the family is less prominent. Our children’s priority is their own family, and so it should be. Play your cards right and you will be totally included, as I am, without asking or dropping hints. That has included going on holiday with them now and again (certainly nowhere near all the time) and being asked to outings I didn’t even know they were going on, and which they had no need to tell me about. It’s a lovely feeling! But then, I have always accepted that it’s their lives, their decisions and they owe me nothing. I am always delighted when they come to tell me about their various activities and outings but never feel I should have been included.
I am not trying to make out I am the perfect mum, mum-in-law and Nana but I do my best. It’s all about them now and quite right too!
It’s not all about you!!

OP is never ever going to consider her own behaviour as anything other than reasonable. I’m positive it was her who made a thread about a yard sale and her offering her kids things but refusing to get something for her DiL (who even offered to pay). Same style, same 13-hour distance from son and DiL. All I can say is, I’m not at all surprised they live that far away.

OP, it doesn’t actually matter what you think about how the relationship between you and him should be like. If you want a relationship with him (and it sounds like you want it more than he does), you have to deal with how he wants it to be. My MIL thinks she can treat us all like rubbish and we should deal with it just because we’re related, but she’s found out the hard way that that’s not how the rest of us see it. If you don’t want to be permanently excluded from his life, make some changes (including being nice to his wife).

I don’t speak to my mum this much at all, in fact barely at all. I am finding the OP’s posts quite suffocating of her expectations of her children and agree, this is usually the downfall of every over bearing parent in the end. It’s been a useful lesson for me in parenting my own DC and allowing them space and independence, my desire is for them to contact and communicate with me when they want to not out of force, obligation or duty.

Good luck OP I think you are going to need it

giving birth to someone doesn’t entitle you to anything

Maybe it’s a cultural thing, but no family I know has the same dynamics as yours, where the matriarch expects everything to revolve around her. Of course you feel a special bond with the person you raised, but that doesn’t mean you need to treat them differently and show such obvious favouritism as buying gifts for your son (why? He’s an adult!) and not for his wife.

Your son has tried to explain to you that he and his wife are a unit and you are being rude, but you don’t want to hear it. If he wanted a private conversation with you he wouldn’t put your calls on loudspeaker, which presumably he does if his wife hears what you say. If he wanted to carry on speaking to you rather than to his wife when she gets home from work he could, though I would think he was being very rude. It’s his choice, not hers, and presumably he would rather talk to his wife, and I don’t blame him.

In fact if he wanted to talk to you that frequently he could phone you when it suited him, rather than you phoning him at a time that obviously doesn’t suit him.

Do they have children? If so, you will only have yourself to blame if you see your grandchildren less and less frequently.

In most of these circumstances it doesn't really matter who is in the wrong. In about nine circumstances out of ten this is not a battle a MiL will ever win over a DiL. The odds are not in OP's favour.

From a parent's position it's a case of coming to terms with that or watching your son gradually distance himself. Personally I'd rather have a relationship with my son than be 'in the right'.

Is that fair? Not always. But women are invariably blamed for all discord in a son's relationship with his family of origin. Self-reflection as to what might have gone wrong in this relationship can be painful: far easier then to blame any issues on the nearest available woman. But grown men have individual agency. They alone are responsible for maintaining their relationship with their own families.

Fair or unfair, as the well-worn old saying goes 'it is what it is'.

You sound like your nose is out of joint big time because you're not his no1 priority, his DW obviously is! You are driving him away with your needy behaviour and you refuse to see it. How often are you calling each of your sons? How much interaction do your DS have with their DF? Do the siblings talk/text much? Do you have a social life outside of your DS? Why shouldn't she answer his phone if he's busy or sleeping because of his shift pattern?
It really won't end well if you ask him to choose between you and his DW.

No, his wife should be his top priority, always.

You seem obsessed with being ‘close knit’. Maybe that works for your middle son who speaks to you every day (although I would see that as a sign of someone being an immature manchild tied to his mummy’s apron strings) but it clearly doesn’t work for your other son.

He isn’t doing this because of his wife. He’s doing it because he wants to. Nothing you have described about your son suggests he’s being controlled and nothing about his communication with you is even remotely unusual.

By the way - it’s really normal for couples to answer each other’s phones if they’re not around or something. Especially now that hardly anyone uses landlines. My mother in law would actually love it if I picked up my partner’s phone when he’s busy working or in the shower or whatever! She hates voicemail and likes a little chat with me now and again.

I really don't understand your issue with her answering her husband's phone? If you call and he doesn't have his phone on him, would you rather just get voicemail than she answers and says he's in the shower/ garden/ other room, I'll get him for you? How on earth is she over stepping answering a ringing phone in her own house?!

I don’t actually agree with the idea that one person always has to be the top priority and I think it shifts over time and what is going on in people’s lives.

My partner is not always my no1. Sometimes a good friend is if they need me more in that money, maybe a family member, maybe myself. It’s not as simple as your partner always gets top billing over everyone else.
Although it clearly does for some but I think that’s unhealthy.

A good and healthy relationship can accept those peaks and troughs and understand you’re needed in different ways by different people though.

I don’t get the sense this is what’s happening here and it’s not really clear what part they all have to play. The OP is clearly feeling bruised and rejected but is that the reality or is it simply different expectations of what a relationship looks like? I don’t have the same relationship with my parents that they had with theirs because I don’t want that.

is the DIL putting up barriers between the OP and her son or is the son just not that bothered and the DIL is taking the blame.

Is she controlling by answering the phone and asking for gifts or is she trying to carve out a way to feel part of the family and connected.

The OP will never find out if she’s not willing to reflect on her own behaviour and maybe have some brave conversations with her family.