AIBU to be worried about my son’s marriage dynamics?

[MyCyanShaker]

I've noticed some concerning dynamics in my son's marriage. When I call him, he'll often rush off the phone as soon as his wife comes home from work or starts talking to him. Sometimes she'll even answer his phone when he's not around. When I offer to get him something, he'll mention what she'd like too, without even asking me if I want to get something for her. It feels like she's dominating the conversation and possibly even controlling him.

My son works overnights, and I rarely get to talk to him. When I do, he often sounds agitated, even when I ask him simple questions. I've tried texting him to check in, but he doesn't always respond. He's always been a bit independent, but lately, I've felt like he's becoming more distant. We've always been close, but now it feels like I'm struggling to connect with him.

They've been married for 5 years, and they've been together for 9 years before that, so I thought they had a strong foundation. I'm worried about his well-being and feel like his wife might be isolating him from our family. We've always been a close-knit family, and it's hard for me to see him pulling away. He's always been closest to his younger brother, with whom he shares similar interests and personality traits. They're close in a way that he and his middle brother aren't. Given this, I'm thinking of asking his younger brother to check in with him and see if he's okay. Maybe his brother can get a better sense of what's going on and offer some support.

I'm torn between being a concerned mum and respecting their marriage. I don't want to overstep or interfere, but at the same time, I want to make sure my son is happy and healthy. Has anyone else dealt with similar concerns about marriage dynamics? Should I be worried, or am I just being a concerned mum?

This is your problem. You are too entitled. A mother’s job is to raise her children to be independent and then support their adult lives and choices. You want to separate him from his choices. If his choice is to be with his wife, if she is his world, what a great set up for any children they do or may have. Why try to come between that. Support, don’t sabotage.

Ahhh another one.

OP: AIBU?
The vast, vast majority of answers: Yes, yes you are.
OP: No I'm not!

Why do these people choose AIBU to air their batshittery? It's clearly not the right place for them.

"wrt her answering his phone, maybe she’s being kind? Maybe she doesn’t want your call to go unanswered? Maybe your son is saying, ‘Fuck me, it’s my mother yet again. I can’t be arsed with her drivel today.’ And his wife feeling bad for you?"

Yep. I've had to answer my husband's phone when his mother calls due to this exact response.

My husband calls his father every day, without fail (parents aren't together). Because he likes talking to him.

I have to gently remind him to call his mother occasionally because if I don't, he won't. Ever again as long as he lives. It's not because I'm controlling and isolating him, it's because he finds her boring and self-involved. She goes on and on about things he's not interested in, and doesn't appear interested in anything he's doing. He finds it torturous. If he does brace himself to call her, he makes a point of doing so from his van while about five minutes from home so that he can tell her he has to go because he's arrived home/at work now.

There's also an element of something someone else mentioned above, which is that since becoming a parent he's become very aware of how he feels she could/should have done things differently and he doesn't like it.

My MIL loves to parrot the narrative that he's distant because I control him. Fortunately most people know how awful she is and don't listen. We've also been together 14 years and at first I made a big effort, and he was much closer to her, however over the years he has drawn away and I have too because it's what he wants. Not because I'm exerting my strange powers but because he feels she's changed and while he loves her because he's a dutiful son, he's realised he actually doesn't like her as a person at all. Of course there's no reasonable way to tell her all this (and frankly she wouldn't listen if we did). It's easier for her to decide it's down to me and as neither he nor I care what she thinks these days, we let her carry on but also grow more and more distant. I certainly don't have to put any effort into isolating him from her, she's doing that all by herself. He would happily never see her again and she simply doesn't realise that the little relationship they have left is because I encourage him not to burn bridges.

So many posters have said the exact same as I have but of course no MIL wants to hear it and this thread is no different. While it's probably too late to repair most of these existing relationships, hopefully some of the mothers of sons reading here will learn something from it they can benefit from in future.

Perhaps he can't be arsed with your constant ringing, maybe he finds you irritating and wants to get u off the phone quickly 🤔

Op… the way to regain your son’s attention and admiration is to fully embrace them as a couple. You have not done this and if your DIL has had 14 years of resentment then you are reaping what you have sowed. It might be too late now, it appears you have lost your son through your own thoughtlessness and he can barely talk to you because of the way you have treated the love of his life… the one who really matters to him.

Yep, that's all true if you like your parents and want them to remain a high priority. However sometimes people choose not to for their own reasons. It sounds like that's what the OP's son is doing so she's trying to force a relationship. That never works.

What is it with mothers and their sons? My mother-in-law was exactly the same. She considered herself to be closer to my husband than I was and frequently made sure I knew that. Thankfully, I was safe in the knowledge that my husband loved me, so I was eventually able to take it with a pinch of salt. It did get me down at first though and I asked my husband to have a word with her. His reply was that he could, but that unless I told her myself, it would have little or no effect. I was furious with him! I did, however, tackle her, and he was right, she backed off. We had a pretty good relationship after that.
My daughters have been married for years and I get on famously with my sons in-law. I have made a point of never criticising what they do, never pushing myself on them with too many visits and by taking on board the fact that they are their own people with their own family. Consequently, I am frequently included in their plans and I’m not being big-headed when I say that I feel wanted and appreciated by them. I am also exceptionally close to my grandchildren, even the one who works abroad (he WhatsApp’s regularly).
Smothering them with my presence , or trying to run their lives would have put paid to all that.

To MyCyanShaker, my advice is:

Whether he is married or not, you are not, and should not be, the priority in your son’s life!
If he wants to see you, he will make the effort to do so. If you insist on it, regardless of his plans, you will put him off visiting at all.
You need to understand that you are not as important as you once were, but if you stop being so needy, you could well get him back.
The more you fight agains his set-up, the more he will resent you. Back off. Invite him and his wife for a meal now and again, if you wish, but leave the running of their lives up to them!

The more OP replies I read the more I feel sorry for your son as well as your DIL.
If it’s always you calling him every couple of days (which it sounds like it is) then I suggest you stop and give them some breathing space. You mention he get short with you on the phone or seems annoyed at simple questions you’re asking… well what are you asking ? Honestly I’d probably be a bit annoyed if my mum rang multiple times a week without anything particular to say. If he lives 13 hours away what can you possibly have to talk to him about on Wednesday that you’ve not already told him on Monday ?

And it sounds like your son has actually expressed to you that he feels upset you don’t see him and his wife as a unit and yet you think this is not justified. He’s literally TOLD YOU how he feels and you won’t accept this ?

Honestly it blows my mind how some people have zero capacity for self reflection or can think that any of their own actions might be contributing to the way others react towards them.

simply put: he’s not interested in speaking to you multiple times a week about probably nothing. He's busy and got his own life which is 13 hours away… He won’t care a jot about your news of Mary from the church having her hip op next week, or the fact you are doing the garden this weekend and hope it doesn’t rain, or whatever else it is that you probably waffle on to him about.
He’s probably making signals to his wife when she walks in to give him an excuse to get off the phone to you because he’s been mumbling along and politely agreeing or feigning interest in whatever you’ve called him to witter about. He also thinks you’re rude as you seem intent on excluding his wife from things, and why should he have time for someone who makes it quite clear they are not interested in his life partner?

@MyCyanShaker Is the favoured middle son the only one you haven't yet pissed off or driven away by smothering him with phone calls/hating on his wife/bragging on FB about his new home/deleting FDIL remarks?

OP was told this on her last thread and she said she would call less, but she clearly hasn't. She's unable to look at her own behaviour it seems, and just thinks her son should fit around what she wants - pretty controlling of her really. I think there's a lot of projection going on in how she views her DiL.

You’re constantly drip feeding and each message makes you sound more smothering and entitled towards your son, disrespectful of his marriage and his wife, and extremely needy and demanding.

You can be as disgruntled as you want.

What’s clear is that they as a couple have your mark and aren’t putting up with it. Good for them.

Now you need to ask yourself why you need validation from this particular adult male son by demanding he put your needs and feelings above than the women he chose to spend the rest of his life with. You also need to reflect on your dislike for his wife.

You could get therapy to help with this, or a hobby to fill time or spend more time with the children you feel meet your needs who you compare this adult son to.

Lots of options to meet your needs, keep you busy and be happy rather than making your hatred of his wife more intense and becoming even more bitter towards their happy union.

Be grateful your son has found a mate who he loves. I’d give anything for my son to find his great love and be happy and would take a back seat in a heart beat if he could.

It not like you don’t have contact and interactions…..you do, you just don’t have contact on your terms and he’s won’t share your perspective on the woman he loves.

The sooner you accept the contact and interactions you have and the way things are the more likely contact will continue and you can make it enjoyable …….keep as you are and one day they may go no contact.

@MyCyanShaker really needs to discuss her issues first with a GP and then with a therapist.

The entitlement is real sometimes.

Says the woman who expects her adult son to speak to her for 15 minutes every two days and who blames his wife for him not doing so.

Parents should be a priority, yes. But for many people, parents can be a difficult relationship.

DH has a complex relationship with his mum. He loves her, but she's "insane", in his own words (a little like OP is coming across) because she expects everything to be done her way. His brothers mostly just bow down to her to keep the peace but he's often "in trouble" because he won't.

For a while she blamed me for that, til I pointed out he has never done as he was told, even before I was on the scene.

When he's "in trouble" it can be weeks before they speak. Even when he's not, he often keeps her at arms length to avoid inevitably ending up there.

Man, I’d get off the phone fast if you were my mother. You are incredibly argumentative.

I mean this kindly OP. I know you are worried but I really do think you need to focus on your own behaviour and not a marriage you are not part of.

No: a husband's priority is his wife, which is as it should be. If you assume otherwise then unfortunately you are setting yourself up for a lot of disappointment in your relationship with your adult children. I make this point because such an attitude will do you no favours if you want to continue a positive relationship, and if that feeling is apparent to your son and DiL then there is some blame on both sides of this situation (as is often the case). If your son is putting himself at a distance from you then you can safely assume he has agency in that decision. Notwithstanding, DiL sounds overbearing and insufferable. Few people wouldn't be irked by being talked over, and answering your son's phone is intrusive and odd. This would annoy me, too.

You're in the position of having to bite your tongue, which is the common condition of the parents of adult children. My own family story lends an insight. My grandparents knew what it was to have their daughter married to an abusive, awful man. Our father made her life, and that of me and my sibling, a misery - we had little money because a good deal of his was spent on his alcohol addiction. Our mother and grandmother made our clothes and Mum never had any new things for herself for years.

Our maternal grandparents stood on the sidelines, watched, spent time with us (our mother worked Saturdays which meant we got to spend that day every week with them), and supported her in every way they could. I knew from later adult conversations they were afraid that if they interfered in any way, our father would stop us from seeing them and we'd end up cut off from them further. This would have been very damaging to us as our grandparents were the most stable influence in our lives. They were very careful to be respectful to our father - difficult though that must have been - our grandfather for one loathed and despised the man. But they swallowed their feelings and put the wellbeing of us, the children, first. As a result of that we maintained the close, positive relationship with them we'd always had.

It's your choice as to how your progress, OP. If your son is in a coercive relationship there is nothing you can do but let him know in every way possible that you are there for him and your love is unconditional. Push further with your objections and you're going to push him away.

What else can a parent do?

3 times a week?!? I adore my mother, but now I have a family to look after, I call her once a week if she's lucky. If it's gone more than 2-3 weeks she gives me a little nudge as a reminder.

My DH calls his MIL maybe once a month - and that's with reminders! But we both love her dearly too.
I think the only time either my parents or my in-laws have bought just one of us a present since we got married is birthdays.
I can also only think of one time I have visited my mum without my husband since we got married, and that was because he was sick!

I would suggest maybe adjust your expectations and behaviours a bit and then check if you feel you are still seeing signs of abuse.

No harm on getting his brother to check in though. Maybe he will indeed open up to him... you just need to be open to the possibility that him 'opening up' will involve more feedback on his relationship with you than with his wife.

I don't think it's misogyny to suggest mothers and daughters tend to have different relationships to mothers and sons. Not in every family before anyone jumps in but as regularly reported on MN then it's certainly the tendency.

In our case my mother definitely saw my husband's arrival on the scene as gaining a son. She's welcomed him and treats him as one of her own and definitely loves him in his own right.

However that will never be the case for any woman my brother might bring home. My mother will never accept a DIL the way she has her SIL. I couldn't even explain it but the DIL will always be an outsider, a rival, never good enough for my brother and his golden penis. She will always be eyed with suspicion and my mother's desperate to find genuine reasons to criticise. If she can't find any she'll just remain cold as ice and wait for a chance be proved right that the poor, unsuspecting female wasn't ever up to standard. It isn't ever the poor girl's fault and there's nothing she could do about it. It's ridiculous.

Ask him and tell him how you feel… not sure it’s the wife though sounds like you have a son issue not a dil issue

You sound awful. My dh will go weeks without speaking to his dm completely his choice. At Easter she got him an Easter egg and me one aswell as the kids. You sound so rude with zero awareness. Do you not buy birthday presents or Christmas? I suspect you don't like this woman who has stolen your son and taking him far away. It's very telling he lives so far way.

Ok seeing as you are finding this VERY difficult to understand, lets make it real simple.
You are in the wrong.
Your son is correct to prioritise his wife over you.
You need to stop making so many demands and phonecalls.
You are in the wrong.
There is no more to it, for all the horsewrangling you want to do, you are plain ole in the wrong.

Nobody I have ever known in my entire life (and I'm 68) would bring a present back from holiday for one spouse and not the other. That's a big statement you're making right there OP. Now you're living with the consequences.

Hi OP. I speak to my mum most days, but I would definitely come off the phone to her if my DH or kids came home to welcome them and ask about their day. Do you know when she gets home from work? Perhaps avoid calling at that time? I would also not be getting a travel gift for only one half of a couple. Could you not get something for the both of them - a nice ceramic, or a local liqueur? I'd also pick up a phone call - particularly if it was a call from his mum, as it might be something important (family illness or something) and I wouldn't want him to miss it. In fact, I get really cross if DH won't pick up my phone if I'm in the other room or my hands are full!

Yes.

I don't think it pits mother and wife against each other - at least it shouldn't. I do think that the "new" family, especially where children are involved, take priority. In the main.