AIBU to be worried about my son’s marriage dynamics?

[MyCyanShaker]

I've noticed some concerning dynamics in my son's marriage. When I call him, he'll often rush off the phone as soon as his wife comes home from work or starts talking to him. Sometimes she'll even answer his phone when he's not around. When I offer to get him something, he'll mention what she'd like too, without even asking me if I want to get something for her. It feels like she's dominating the conversation and possibly even controlling him.

My son works overnights, and I rarely get to talk to him. When I do, he often sounds agitated, even when I ask him simple questions. I've tried texting him to check in, but he doesn't always respond. He's always been a bit independent, but lately, I've felt like he's becoming more distant. We've always been close, but now it feels like I'm struggling to connect with him.

They've been married for 5 years, and they've been together for 9 years before that, so I thought they had a strong foundation. I'm worried about his well-being and feel like his wife might be isolating him from our family. We've always been a close-knit family, and it's hard for me to see him pulling away. He's always been closest to his younger brother, with whom he shares similar interests and personality traits. They're close in a way that he and his middle brother aren't. Given this, I'm thinking of asking his younger brother to check in with him and see if he's okay. Maybe his brother can get a better sense of what's going on and offer some support.

I'm torn between being a concerned mum and respecting their marriage. I don't want to overstep or interfere, but at the same time, I want to make sure my son is happy and healthy. Has anyone else dealt with similar concerns about marriage dynamics? Should I be worried, or am I just being a concerned mum?

What exactly do you want people to say?
You refuse to see any other view point other than your own.
your approach clearly isn’t working.
But you cling on like grim death.
Your son doesn’t want to talk to you!!!!!!!
He does NOT sound like he’s being controlled by his wife ( he get irritated on the phone , so not some little mouse of a man)
He’s also assertively asked you to include his wife in your gift giving.
But you disagree with his view ( so try and control his view )
He’s married - to the Love of his life.
You HAVE lost him - She’s won.
I have read the full thread.
It’s either not real or …. Well I’m not sure.
My dh was golden children and my mil was over bearing and demanded visits - but dh worked 60 odd hours.
She became impossible and we were lc.
Bil didn’t fair so well - his relationship is now in tatters…….

Lol you've jumped the shark OP. Be more subtle next time.

Obviously I can't say for certain he isn't in a controlling relationship with his wife, but most of the stuff sounds normal. I would definitley answer my husbands phone if it rang when he wasn't there and I saw it was his mum, he would do the same with mine, just to say hi. Our parents would always get a present for both of us anyway, unless it was for our birthday or something specific like a dress they thought I would like. I am not sure about the talking on the phone, but sounds like you might talk quite a bit, my brother would not put up with my mum calling him that often. I often say to my mum oh DH is back I should go now (or put her on speaker to say hi to him too), as we are chatting about nothing in particular (she calls me every day) and I want to talk to my DH. If we only spoke every week it would be different, but every day or every other day, I think it is reasonable to just be having a chat and expect to pick it up the next day or day after.

It is hard. I have a little DS and don't know how I will let him go as he grows up though. If you are concerned about other things though that might be different.

My adult son is married and lives in America - I see him once a year, and we talk weekly. He phones me.

My adult daughter lives 10 minutes away - we may quickly talk or text, daily, if there’s something to say, and I might see her once a week.

They both have families, they all work, and they have their own lives.

When our kids grow up - we have to let them go. We are no longer their priority. Rightly.

If you loosen the apron strings and stop being so needy, you might get more contact from your son. His wife is his priority. 🤷‍♀️

Wow! The double standards alive on mumsnet is real. On here it’s all, “they are married they are a unit it’s incredibly rude to buy just your son a gift unless it’s his birthday and not buy your DIL a gift.” And a good and decent husband will include his wife.

However on the other thread the DIL was shred to pieces for daring to have hurt feelings that her MIL took only her son out as a treat for a baseball game but in that case it was even worse than in this case bc MIL’s treat wasn’t about spending time with her son her treat was about being a good provider bc he was stressed which had strong passive aggressive implications that the DIL’s work isn’t stressful and her contributions to her family aren’t important or appreciated and overlooked. It sent a message of the DIL not appreciating the son’s hard work so his mother had to fill in for the wife and treat her son bc clearly his wife doesn’t appreciate him on her own so his mother had to do what should have been left up to his wife. and the OP of that thread was told it’s her son she has every right to treat her son with individually without treating his wife but again it was even worse in that post bc her gift to her lovely son was actually to the detriment of her DIL making her the primary caregiver of her child putting more work and burden on her DIL.

where was the same energy of them being a married unit on that post? That all being said I do agree with the majority of posters on her that it’s absolutely horrible to get your son a souvenir and leave out your DIL. Your son is prob thinking by default well you are getting me something of course you should also get my wife something. I like the coffee analogy of any decent husband would offer his wife coffee as well. Imagine MIL coming over with a pizza and saying son this is for you and the DIL goes for a slice as well and her MIL accuses her of being gift grabby and entitled well how dare you have a slice of pizza in her own home. See how ridiculous that is? Well same thing with the souvenir her son is married 2 become one you become one flesh of course you get for both or neither. That should be the default once your son marries

I can’t see the problem. If my MIL calls and DH isn’t around to answer his phone I will answer it and tell her he’s in the shower/out for a run or whatever and let her know when he’ll be back.

Similarly if I’m on the phone to my DM and DH comes in after being out all day, I’ll get off the phone quickly to welcome him home. Because frankly, I’d rather talk to DH than sit listening to DM witter on for hours about her friend’s bunions.

This could almost describe what happens here, although without the gifting.
MIL phones, DH ignores it as ‘he’s busy’ so I grab it because I feel bad that no one is picking up her call. I’ll explain that he’s busy and take a msg and then it’s up to DH to ring her back.
Sometimes when I get in from work he’ll be on the phone talking to someone and when he sees me he’ll end the conversation because although I don’t care that he’s on the phone he wants to crack on with what we need to do as a family once I’m back.
I never ask for anything but one time MIL was abroad and phoned and DH asked her to grab something specifically for me as it was a speciality of that country that he knew I enjoyed.
It does seem a bit of a massive leap to assume he is being controlled, sounds like he’s super busy and probably not wanting to do small talk chats.
My BIL is closer to MIL they spend a lot of time together but he doesn’t have children so has less calls on his time.
Maybe ask one of his brothers if they’ve noticed any difference in behaviour lately but I certainly wouldn’t mention his wife. If his brothers say he’s behaving as normal and taking part in their shared hobbies etc then it’s a him and you dynamic that’s gone a little awry.

Agree …… I wonder if op is even bothering to read them.
Totally projecting ….: but my mil had absolutely No Self-awareness either.

Is there a cultural difference here?

Your post sounds like you are the problem for jumping to negative conclusions.

In many families the wife would applauded for being friendly as she answered her husband’s phone to say hi and update her MIL with any news about her son and family. The fact that you see this as trying to establish dominance and ownership says a lot about you. Have you considered the possibility that she answers his phone because she’d like to be closer to you and talking to you for 5 mins while he gets out the shower or whatever is her attempt at trying to change your opinion on her?

I suspect that her parents always buy both of them gifts so he’d like you to do the same for her. It seems that you’ve totally ignored the fact that he’s explicitly said that it’s rude not to include her. I suspect he knows that you don’t like his wife and would like you to pretend that’s not the case by showing some manners. If you really can’t stand buying her a gift then buy the couple a joint gift or don’t buy a gift at all.

I suspect that the ending the call when she gets back is either because he gets little time for her or was hoping to start dinner when you called and wants to return to that task. I suspect that he’d prefer you calling less - could you ask him for his day off so you can call him then ? 3 times a week means that one of those calls will be on a working day and the rigid schedule means that your calls have become a chore. If you didn’t call him then how often do you think he’d call? The fact that you think that the daily calls from his brother are a good thing makes me wonder if you’re the one wanting to show dominance and control so see your DIL as a threat.

I suspect that you’d be closer to your son if you called him less and treated your DIL like a member of the family. It’s been 15 years yet you’re acting like they’ve been together 15 weeks and I could see how that disrespect has him wanting to quickly end calls with you.

I think that most husbands/wives share most info that they hear from their family and friends. If you’ve told your son something then he has probably told his wife so your illusions that you have privacy with him are probably totally wrong. I’m guessing that you keep secrets from your husband but in my experience that’s not usual.

Not all women and their DIL get on. I have adult children and have definitely preferred some gf/bf over others (they aren’t old enough for marriage etc ) but if I can’t be at least friendly on a surface level, I know that it’s going to negatively affect my relationship with my kids.

And from their annoyingly clingy and jealous mothers

No, not because it's a mother/daughter. Because it's a MUTUAL desire to speak that often.

Your son is his own person, who it sound like prefers to have a more hands off relationship with you. Just because your other kids are happy with that set up, or happy to just to along with it even if they don't want to, this son is free to make up his own mind.

No idea why you are getting so much stick OP. There is a similar dynamic with one of my brothers and his wife, my mum has gradually come to terms with it. My mother thinks the change happened literally the day after they got married. Then his wife seemed to lose interest in socialising as a wider family (and we are all introverts and don't meet often, so nothing heavy!) My other brother (happily married) has quite happily managed to maintain both relationships with his wife and mother and others too! He suspects that our other brother is being heavily controlled, I don't know, he seems happy. I think we have come to accept that as his wife has quite a difficult family background and a difficult relationship with her parents - who I believe are both are now deceased - she is happy to be just the two of them.
If we need to speak to him, we to have to leave messages and wait for him to call us - he rarely picks up. They lost a beloved pet a few years back, and the first we heard about it was messages to us all from his wife that had a slightly guilt-inducing tone that we should call him as he needed support - only for us to do so, him not respond immediately as normal, and when he called us back days later he seemed chipper enough! 🙄
There's a saying: 'A son is your son till he takes a wife, but a daughter is a daughter for all of her life.'

OP, I say this kindly but you aren’t the most important person in his life now. That’s his wife.
My mum doesn’t ring my married brother wanting to just ‘have a chat’. She knows he’s got work, a wife and a child. If she texts him, she knows it might be a few hours before he replies. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t love her, it’s simply that he has a life of his own a family of his own.

I think you need to realise he’s not your little boy anymore.

I give my kids and their partners the same even if it's only me arriving with their favourite chocolate I will get their partners favourite as well. Christmas and birthdays it's the same budget for all of them. I'm aware some of their in laws don't do the same but that's not my business and doesn't change what I think is right.

The only bit that might concern me is the rushing off the phone when she gets home but that depends on circumstances, if it's a furtive must go when you hear her arrive or if it's ok mum must go as Janes just got home and says hi. I think I'd have to hear it to know.

Almost like your brothers are two different people with two different ways of interacting. Their wives are also two different people with two different ways of interacting.

This tired old misogynist nonsense: A son is your son till he takes a wife, but a daughter is a daughter for all of her life is disproved within your own post.

That's a battle you're not going to win so I'd stop asking him about gifts.

Since when does being married mean a mother can’t view her own son as her own son and drop the relationship she has with him

Things are starting to become clearer. I think probably most of us don’t see our children as possessions in a dynamic which is static. We see our kids as people that we love and support into adulthood, when they become independent and then after that, we love them as independent beings who can choose how they want to live their lives.

I think 3 times a week is too much given it's not working for him. Let him call you sometimes. You could say you'll be reducing your phone calls as you understand they have busy lives but you'd really appreciate a call once a week - if you communicate that he'll be more likely to do it and he has the freedom to schedule it when suits him and his family.

You sound like a nightmare. Back off and give your adult son and his wife space to breathe. Stop trying to cause trouble. No wonder he lives 13 hours away. Don’t you have your own friends and things to occupy yourself? So glad you aren’t my MIL. I hoping this is not a real post.

This is just odd behaviour. My parents and FIL treat me and my DH the same. We get equal gifts/money or joint presents for Christmas/birthdays/souvenirs.

Does DS know you don't like his wife? My DH wasn't bothered about having much to do with MIL once she showed that she couldn't be less interested in his family and actively dislike me.

Could it be that your DIL isn't coming home and talking to him expecting him to get off the phone but rather she's coming home and your son is mouthing 'Help mum's on the phone again' and she's causing a distraction for him to leave? Me and my DH do this and door bell ringing for each other when we want to get off the call.

My MIL has a very set idea of how my OH (her son) should act, and also how I should act, in relation to her position as mother. She says a lot how she always wanted a daughter and she thought we (she and I) would have spent more time together doing what she thinks are mother-daughter things, like spa days and afternoon tea, shopping and other ‘girls days out’.

She never worked after having children and put her heart and soul into bringing them up, at the expense of her own interests and hobbies.

These expectations are suffocating for my OH and I both.

I think you’re expecting too much, which is something only you can look at.

If he has to pick a side, I don’t think he would pick you, as upsetting as it is for you to hear that.

Mine's grown up and they live together now, have done for several years.
When I see them it's usually them together, which is absolutely fine, and to be expected.
You've got to accept that things move on, dynamics shift etc, it doesn't stay like when they were kids.
If you exclude her from presents, accuse her of being controlling (when it could quite well just be him not wanting to speak as much as you want him to) and talk about (even if just on here) that you don't get any one on one time with him, that will add up and she's presumably not daft, she'll sense that.
Don't automatically blame her.
You're going to end up pushing them away.

The thing about phones is that they can make outgoing calls as well as accepting incoming calls. If your son wanted to speak to you more frequently he’d ring you.

If you know his wife always gets home at say 7pm, why do you keep ringing at that time? Why not call half an hour earlier? It sounds like you’re deliberately testing him and not liking the results.

The souvenirs thing is so childish. It’s like a playground squabble- you’re buying gifts that your adult son doesn’t need specifically so you can pointedly leave out your DIL. Of course demanding gifts would be rude, but I bet your son and his wife have come up with this response to wind you up, because your attempt to drive a wedge between them via the medium of souvenir tat is utterly ridiculous. While you’re getting yourself all het up over Mandy’s demands for a Skegness tea towel, they’re both laughing at you.

It seems to me you don’t like the relationship your son is offering you, which is a very common setup - that you have less one on one time with your child after they are married. You are pushing for something you can’t have and it’s making you miserable.

You will have more positive time with your son if you make an effort in your relationship with your DIL - would it kill you to buy them both gifts on holiday? My in-laws don’t like me much but even so they always bring us back a joint present or something each.

As for the phone calls, nights are hard work and it’s hard to keep your home life on track. When exactly are you calling? After they’ve woken up or at the end of their day? My family often called around 0930-1000, it was brutal.

I understand you wish your son wanted to call you every day. But he doesn’t. And by forcing the issue and blaming your DIL you are forcing him away further. It doesn’t sound to me like she is controlling - it sounds like you have become a problem for them both to solve. She probably doesn’t like you much because you behave as though her presence is a problem.

In your shoes, next time you go abroad, ask them what they’d both like. Tell your DS (without being a martyr) that you think given their back to back shifts, you’re not giving them enough family time and you’ll check in once a week. You’ll find that much more rewarding than a five minute brush-off three times a week. Embrace them as a unit. Because that is what is on the table.

Literally no-one has said they would be "horrified" if their MIL bought their son a gift and not their wife. Most people have just said that it would seem rude to do this and most MILs would buy a present for both, or buy a joint present. I always get my dad and his wife (my step-mum) a little present when I go away. I would feel very embarrassed just handing something over to him and not her.