Am I being dramatic to consider ending things over DP’s view on feminism?

[Ubadl]

I feel really shit about this and don’t know if I’m blowing it out of proportion.

DP is 43 and I’m 37. We’ve been together 5 years and have a two year old DS. DP has a highly respected career and is on the face of it very educated and likes a debate, can usually see two sides to something etc. In recent years my feminist views have been more vocalised, I guess as a result of getting older and seeing the realities more and more as to how women were and are treated.

We were playing with DS today and the topic of feminism came up. I said I hope DS is a feminist as he grows up … this was said in the middle of play and DP suddenly said I hope he’s not. I obviously questioned what he meant and he said he ‘didn’t want DS to ‘be’ anything’ as long as he wasn’t misogynistic, racist or homophonic etc. I felt immediately offended about this and couldn’t even bring myself to explain to him that feminism is part of combating misogyny, for example. He knows I’m upset but hasn’t spoken about it since and this happened several hours ago.

He is otherwise a decent man. He’s a good parent to DS. I feel so upset about this I am genuinely considering whether we have a future. Not sure if this is a dramatic reaction… I’m not an ‘extreme’ feminist and rarely talk about such matters with DP as they don’t come up, but I am of course a feminist and his comments have made me feel shit.

Unless there’s a massive drip-feed coming, I think this was a disagreement about terminology & performative identity politics, rather than women’s rights and male allyship.

However, I’d be pissed off at the arrogant mansplainy interjection - ‘Well I hope he’s not a feminist!’ - which reads to me, in your telling of it, as though he felt he ought to have the last word on the subject. There was definitely a better and less inflammatory way to make whatever point he was trying to make.

Given you've said you've become more vocal about your feminist ideas and you somehow brought up the topic of feminism during play with a 2 year old, I suspect your DH is bored of you banging on about your feminist views all the time.

This post reminds me of this very religious Christian girl I used to know back in high school. In her mind, Christianity was so synonymous with being a good person that she had a hard time understanding why someone wouldn’t want to be a Christian. It was like it never occurred to her that a lot of the good things she found in Christianity - helping the poor and needy, devotion to family, caring for other people’s moral well-being - also existed outside of that ideology.

In your mind, feminism is so synonymous with being a good person that you think it’s got a monopoly on treating people equally.

I understand how you feel and if he's gone from being a feminist to being anti feminist, I'd be concerned. There are a lot of very vocal misogynist influencers and a huge pushback against feminism at the moment.

Thank you for explaining. Could I have some examples of when this sort of thing happens, please?

YANBU - you might just have a different understanding of what the word 'feminist' means - it may well be that you actually agree on how it will hopefully manifest itself in your DS's future attitudes and behaviour - but for DH to say "I hope he isn't", rightly rings alarm bells for you, and I totally understand you questioning DH's own attitudes and behaviour, and whether or not your values coincide.
Talk about it, and you will hopefully have your fears allayed, and hopefully your values will coincide.
Or you may find out he's a total plum after all 🤔😀

YABU to consider ending things and to feel like you can’t be bothered to speak to him.
Yanbu to spend time explaining your views - I’d be saying whilst not misogynistic is great, there’s another step he could take to be more pro-women without needing to make flags and go on marches. I’d say something like from his behaviour and past experiences you’d say he was a feminist- it doesn’t make him a militant or extremist, it just means supporting women to make their own choices in life.
It just sounds like semantics tbh - you getting in a strop won’t help him feel more warm about things either.

For starters men can’t be feminists because they a men.

They can be an ally/support feminist principles.

He stated what he didn’t want DS to be, all good.

And honestly Feminism has been so sold out by the Lib Fems/3rd wave who support “sex work”, surrogacy, porn and men in our spaces that it feels like you have to clarify what kind of feminism you mean. Because if its this feminism then YABU.

I can see his point in not putting labels on a child. But saying “I hope he’s not” would be my sticking point. Not sure I could get past that, personally. Not without a lot of open discussion- obviously without the child there!

Well, I wouldn't have a relationship with someone who wasn't a feminist.

But his values presumably haven't changed. Does he just not understand what a feminist is? "I don't want him to be a misogynist but I don't want him to be a feminist" doesn't entirely make sense. It's basically saying "I'm opposed to the structural inequality of society based on gender, but I don't think we should fix it by supporting the oppressed group".

None if that is feminism, in my opinion. And you refer to this as a “kind of feminism”, suggesting there are other kinds, but also say you can’t be a feminist anymore.

Feminims isn’t a hive mind, feminists disagree with each other about lots of things.

Women deciding they can’t be feminists simply plays into the hands of the patriarchy and does nothing for some, especially the most vulnerable women, so I hope that you have a rethink.

Thank you-that’s what I wanted to say but couldn’t think of the words!

How on earth can you draw such ridiculous conclusions on the basis of the OP?
I bet you’re not a feminist, or don’t really understand what it means.

@Ubadl I get you, it’s such a shock when someone you love espouses a horrible principle and shakes the foundation of your relationship and who you think they are. I would try to talk to him when you’ve cooled down, based on what feminism means, I.e. equal opportunity for all. TBH if he didn’t react well I would think about ending the relationship as he isn’t who I thought he was, and let’s be honest the only real alternative to feminism is misogyny (there is no middle ground), but that has to be a decision for you (though don’t let others talk you out of it if that’s your decision).

I agree with you, but then that philosophy would need to apply across the EDI board.

I agree with this ^

I think men and women should be equal, hate misogyny and support feminist views, but I don't feel I need a label to define me.

I think the OP is massively blowing this out of proportion and looking for an argument where there is none.

I'm prepared to be flamed for this, but situations like this give feminism a bad name.

Having read the update, it sounds like he means he hopes your son will espouse feminist values but isn't in favour of using labels.

That's fair enough but also a bit confusing (I know someone who says something like "I'm not a feminist but I believe women are equal to men". Erm, that kind of is feminism. She's quite feminine in style and I think she's unjustly worried that she wouldn't be allowed to wear make up and dresses if she says out loud that she's a feminist.)

Having thought about it, I've never heard my husband say he's a feminist but if you asked him if he believed in and supported equal rights he would say "yes" straight away.

the reason i struggle with the label is also because i want everyone to be treated fairly. not just women, not just men, not one given priority over the other everybody is absolutely equal.

i will offer my support to a person or a idea because it is the right and just thing. this is regardless of gender, nationality i am neutral to every group but on the side of what is right and truth. so in a way i feel conflicted with the label because i support women being equal to men not because they are women but because everyone should be treated equal regardless who they are. i would equally support men if there was any sort of injustice.

maybe i am over thinking the label

Why do women need feminism? Because they are still not treated equally to men because, in the main, of their perceived reproductive capacity and the societal expectations that differ between mothers and fathers. So although we are equal in law, that doesn’t play out necessarily in reality, eg with gender (meaning sex) pay gaps (think about why it’s called a gender pay gap. Because if you say gender rather than sex, you swerve accusations of sexism or sexual discrimination. Words matter to women). I work in an industry that is overall dominated by women - except at the top, and where there are organizations with big gender pay gaps. So we need feminism to address these things.

Then of course we have the current assault on women’s rights over the last 10 years from the gender ideologists. Feminists have been, stridently no doubt, fighting back against men being placed in female prisons, refuges, sports etc, and have slowly been clawing back what’s been lost and winning in the courts (thank you, For Women Scotland!).

From where I’m standing much of the old sexism has been replaced by a far more toxic misogyny.

Thats just a few waffling thoughts before I start work this morning!

Used to be that a bloke saying 'I'm a feminist' was only ever trying to get laid - they were the Not All Men/I'm a Good Guy from at least the 1970s onwards. As an aside, their perspective on feminism also tended to include swinging, pestering lesbians and the occasional wallop in the interests of establishing equality as it 'wasnt fair' a woman could hit a man. And by the 90s, a ponytail. They always had a ponytail.

Not odd at all; it just makes him less insular. Does everything have to be neatly compartmentalised, for you?

Are you suggesting that you can’t be a feminist and other things too?

I would support men too in any circumstances where they are discriminated against by the “system” and by society. For example, when men talk about the crisis in men’s mental health, I always say “Tell me what you want me to do to help and I’ll be there.”

I think it's the other way round. You can be a feminist because of your beliefs. However, there is room for nuance, as OP's DH has demonstrated. I believe our beliefs should be open to debate, which, of course, is one of the greatest things about MN!

I agree. But this thread seems to be mostly “Feminism is bad”- no debate. Which ties in with the OP’s DP saying categorically that he wouldn’t want his son to be a feminist. Not much nuance there!

I want everyone to be treated fairly too.

But I recognise that in a society where one gender is oppressed by another, the route to equality is by improving the situation of the oppressed group. That's what feminism means.