Am I being dramatic to consider ending things over DP’s view on feminism?

[Ubadl]

I feel really shit about this and don’t know if I’m blowing it out of proportion.

DP is 43 and I’m 37. We’ve been together 5 years and have a two year old DS. DP has a highly respected career and is on the face of it very educated and likes a debate, can usually see two sides to something etc. In recent years my feminist views have been more vocalised, I guess as a result of getting older and seeing the realities more and more as to how women were and are treated.

We were playing with DS today and the topic of feminism came up. I said I hope DS is a feminist as he grows up … this was said in the middle of play and DP suddenly said I hope he’s not. I obviously questioned what he meant and he said he ‘didn’t want DS to ‘be’ anything’ as long as he wasn’t misogynistic, racist or homophonic etc. I felt immediately offended about this and couldn’t even bring myself to explain to him that feminism is part of combating misogyny, for example. He knows I’m upset but hasn’t spoken about it since and this happened several hours ago.

He is otherwise a decent man. He’s a good parent to DS. I feel so upset about this I am genuinely considering whether we have a future. Not sure if this is a dramatic reaction… I’m not an ‘extreme’ feminist and rarely talk about such matters with DP as they don’t come up, but I am of course a feminist and his comments have made me feel shit.

So your husband doesn't believe both genders should have equal rights and opportunities? That's a worry. But he thinks all races and nationalities should? Just not women.

Yes absolutely LTB OP and make sure he never comes near your son again based on one passing comment whereby he expressed he didn't want his son being labelled as something which has a very wide description. Definitely don't talk it out and ask what he understands the title means compared to you. That would be very unreasonable.

I know several men who would probably not describe themselves as "feminists" but who I would say definitely are (and the other way round, actually).
The most important thing about people are their actions, not their labels.
If he doesn't identify as a feminist, but otherwise meets the criteria for being one, then the label is not worth arguing about.

Thanks, he’s since clarified that he DOES support women’s rights and feminist values but thinks he doesn’t need a label for that.

What is your definition of a feminist? I’d suggest having a conversation with DP when you’re alone about what being a feminist means to you, and seeing if he considers himself to fit within that definition, even if it doesn’t match with his own definition.

If you can both agree generally that you would like DS to grow up believing that men and women are no better or worse than each other and should be treated equally then does it matter if your partner doesn’t want to use the label?

If your partner genuinely wants your DS to grow up thinking he is of more value than women, and deserves better opportunities etc then obviously that’s quite the problem.

Strident???
The OP said:
"feminism is part of combating misogyny"
and
"I’m not an ‘extreme’ feminist."

Is there anything at all she could have said about feminism that wouldn't sound "strident" to you?

Exactly this.

I think it just feels odd to me that you can supper the values but not want the label of a feminist?!

Blimey what a rude comment. Feminism is a pretty mainstream political belief. It’s not “mental” to want your partner to share those views.

Which is why you talk to him and establish what having the label of "feminist" means to each of you.

You must have some idea already of what his values are? I’m as strident as they come but would not find that comment that troubling as just seems to be a different use of the word. Presumably you know what he thinks of relationships, housework, porn and prostitution, etc? It does sound dramatic to react as you have unless you have never discussed anything related to feminism before.

It sounds like he shares your views just doesn’t like the label. I don’t think that is a massive issue. My main concern is does your DP genuinely treat you as an equal, both as a parent and in the rest of your life together? That is what your DS will see and likely copy as he grows up, and that is what counts, not what it is labelled.

I think YABVU and totally over-reacting. If I was your DP I’d be pretty annoyed at you too. You can end your relationship for whatever reason you like. However, I think that you would be foolish to end a loving relationship with a good partner and the father of your child solely as a result of this discussion. Though the fact that you would consider doing so suggests to me it is not as solid a relationship as you make out. Or you are totally inflexible and unable to tolerate anything that is not “your way”, which is a rather problematic trait. I am assuming that your partner is not, in fact, a misogynist based on your post, so I think it’s more a difference of approach/ expression, rather than core belief that you are objecting to. It reflects more unflatteringly on you than your DP, if this is accurate.

i assume, as you’ve said he is a good man and father, that your DP is not a misogynist (or racist or homophobe)? If that is correct, then I think it is likely that what he means is that he wants his son to have good morals, respects everyone for who they are and treats them all fairly. He does not feel he needs to have a label of “feminist” to be respectful of women- his actions will speak far more than you needing to identify him as a feminist.

I also think sometimes the more strident/radical feminism which is often very loud and vocal- and comes across as extremely hostile and accusatory towards men and boys- can often put people off from wanting to have that label. I think you can be a feminist, in terms of your beliefs and actions, without having to flaunt the label. Most decent people are, to all intents and purposes, feminists/not racists/ not homophobic- they don’t need to label themselves as such to be those things.

I guess your husband may subscribe to my view- I want to teach my children how to think for themselves, not what they have to think. I want to teach them about my values and views, and about why I think those things are important, of course, but I don’t want them just to parrot my views because I say so. If you teach them how to evaluate information and evidence and come to a conclusion using that, they are less likely to be swayed by trends/fads/ charm etc. I don’t think they need a label to be a decent human being and citizen. I actually find that those who like to pronounce themselves as a particular thing/need the label, and label others, are often the ones that don’t really live up to their expressed ideals or who are intolerant of other views.

Your son is 2, your husband wants him to grow into a decent man. You have nothing to worry about except perhaps your obsession with feminism.

Well but who cares about the label part!? Actions speak louder, and all that.

Hes a good supportive husband, yes? He’s on your side?

I’ve no idea why you’re being so tedious about this. If I was your husband I’d be pretty bored right about now.

I wouldn’t class any man as a feminist. I would describe them as an ally.

based upon just that conversation, you are overreacting.

does your partner practice an egalitarian relationship? Does he want to split chores equally even if he doesn’t always do a perfect job at doing so? Does he understand the economic strain of pregnancy and child rearing on women and act accordingly when setting up your household finances? Is he prescriptive about gendered play or clothing? Does he want your child to grow up with independent choices?

labels don’t matter. Actions matter.

I think often people who don’t want ‘labels’ are perfectly content with the status quo and are refusing to see the inequalities which are part of our society. Which, as a man he probably is.

It would be a concern for me too tbh.

I agree with this.
I was a feminist in the 70s. If feminists today are like many of the people on the boards here I am not a feminist.

Lots of people don't like labels/ being labelled, Maybe when your son grows up he may wish to describe himself as a feminist. Or maybe his actions will speak for themselves. Your husband sounds emotionally well adjusted .

Agree with this

I don’t believe men can be feminists. Feminist allies, maybe.

I think what you mean is that you hope your DS treats women as equals, understands the harm misogyny causes, and makes his life and political choices accordingly? Which is pretty much what your DH said.

A well balanced man is not afraid of being called a feminist, he sounds a bit limited in his thinking

I am very much in favour of women's rights, spaces, equality etc. I am a woman, why wouldn't I be?

But do not label me a "feminist".

For two reasons.

If you are intolerant around race you are racist, about someone's sex then you are sexist, you can be called heightist, weightist etc. The ist on the end implies a negative. So feminist make me think someone is anti-femine, not pro. I know they aren't, but the word makes no sense to me.

The other reason is that I don't like pushy people, and some self proclaimed feminists I have encountered are so single-minded, intolerant and pushy about it. Nothing happens in their lives that isn't viewed down the lens of feminism, any conversation gets dragged back round to this topic.

So I personally would hope your son wasn't a feminist and was much more rounded and tolerant, like your DH suggested.

I really think you’re jumping the gun OP! If he supports women’s rights, i’m not sure of the problem. The word feminism is tricky - I am obviously very pro women, but even I get annoyed by aspects of “feminism”. I think you need to discuss it further.