Am I being dramatic to consider ending things over DP’s view on feminism?

[Ubadl]

I feel really shit about this and don’t know if I’m blowing it out of proportion.

DP is 43 and I’m 37. We’ve been together 5 years and have a two year old DS. DP has a highly respected career and is on the face of it very educated and likes a debate, can usually see two sides to something etc. In recent years my feminist views have been more vocalised, I guess as a result of getting older and seeing the realities more and more as to how women were and are treated.

We were playing with DS today and the topic of feminism came up. I said I hope DS is a feminist as he grows up … this was said in the middle of play and DP suddenly said I hope he’s not. I obviously questioned what he meant and he said he ‘didn’t want DS to ‘be’ anything’ as long as he wasn’t misogynistic, racist or homophonic etc. I felt immediately offended about this and couldn’t even bring myself to explain to him that feminism is part of combating misogyny, for example. He knows I’m upset but hasn’t spoken about it since and this happened several hours ago.

He is otherwise a decent man. He’s a good parent to DS. I feel so upset about this I am genuinely considering whether we have a future. Not sure if this is a dramatic reaction… I’m not an ‘extreme’ feminist and rarely talk about such matters with DP as they don’t come up, but I am of course a feminist and his comments have made me feel shit.

Embarrassingly entitled.

Poor man. He’s being extremely pragmatic and level headed whereas you are not.

How is feminism a toxic ideology? What do you understand by feminism? From my perspective it’s the fight for women’s rights and liberation from the patriarchy.

They’re married with a child. She knows exactly who he is. They don’t need some sort of summit.

Agree OP, that would totally throw me and would want to know what he meant. Hopefully it’s down to semantics.
Can you tell him why this is important to you? Interestingly just commented on another thread that said fathers need to model this for their sons but often see them as an extension of themselves so are blind to it

i hope i don’t get flamed for this but i as a woman can these days no longer call myself a feminist. we moved from women just wanting to be equal to women should get preferential treatment and no accountability ever and you need to support women just because they are women etc that it has become so toxic.

I agree.

I know - the world's gone mad - over run with power crazy women, refusing to take accountability for anything

I am a feminist and I think what your dp said sounds very measured and reasonable.

I’m a feminist, it’s the lens through which I view the world and always have. But to think of ending your marriage because your husband doesnt attach the same labels to his (perfectly acceptable) beliefs as you? Is there no space for disagreement within your marriage? This is so dramatic I think it might be a question designed to bait us!

Totally.

Tbh I can kind of understand it given that as pps have said "feminism" as a term can mean many different things to different people. And there are people who will exploit the term for their own gain (like 'nice' guys) or maybe their brand of feminist is exclusive and harmful to minority groups. I can also understand people just not feeling particularly comfortable with being labelled as anything in particular.

I hope to raise ds with a foundation of values that will be feminist in nature but as to whether or not he specifically labels himself - I couldn't care less about that. His actions will be what matters to me.

Feminist and feminism have become loaded terms. Discuss the details.

I won’t flame you, but I’m not sure what you mean. Can you say more?

It does not make sense for a man to call themselves a feminist. Only women should have that moral right.

Yabu. Some people mistake feminists for misandrists. That could be what he thinks a feminist is, plenty of misandrists hide behind feminism (say their feminists when they are actually a misandrist) and to be fair I wouldn't want my child to be a misandrist and seen as he doesn't want his child to be a misogynist I think that might be exactly what he thinks. I would approach the subject again ask him what he thinks feminism is and then explain the difference.

i support women having the same rights, i support women being in every way equal. i do not support is now music competitions saying x% of finalists need to be women or if there are two applicants and one is a male and one female and both are in other ways identical then the woman should get the job by default etc that kind of feminism i don’t agree with. or i will vote for x because she is a woman etc do you understand what i mean

I obviously questioned what he meant and he said he ‘didn’t want DS to ‘be’ anything’ as long as he wasn’t misogynistic, racist or homophonic etc.

I think your DP has the right attitude. It is kind of narcissistic and prescriptive to be expecting your son to be exactly like you, and share your self-labelling. If he is a decent man when he grows up, that is enough, and he can be who and what he is and what he wants to be.

Violence against women has been declared an epidemic in the UK and Australia. In the UK two women are killed a week by a man.
1 in 6 girls are sexually abused.
1 in 4 women are raped or sexually assaulted.
97% of those are committed by men.
These sexual crime stats are said to be up to 50% underreported and the murder stats are tricky due to the "honour killings" still allowed to happen under our noses.

The women of Afghanistan are no longer allowed to use our voices and the women of the UK have just had to go to SC to protect our sex based rights. Reproductive rights in the US and medical care for women everywhere needs overhauling.

Who were those women who went to the SC to protect us, if not feminists?

I'm sorry, but it's okay for mumsnetters to sit in their homes and passively say "I wouldn't want to be a feminist either" while other women to go to battle for them.

If you and the men in your life do not understand why we need feminism now more than ever, then you are being wilfully ignorant.

Dismissing the group of people who have given you the very rights you currently enjoy today is more than stupid, it is downright ungrateful.

The UN says at the current rate it will be another 300 years before we truly achieve equality. The fight isn't over because you can be a lawyer and occasionally ask your man to empty the dishwasher.

You don't have to align with certain parts of femisim or groups of feminists. I certainly don't align with those who believe TWAW and I am also happily married to a man.
I don't hate men, but I am very, very aware of the dangers that most men pose and how they are protected in our patriarchal society.

None of us can say that we haven't in some way been kicked down and taken advantage of by men who abuse the current system. Even if you haven't been sexually abused, assaulted or raped, your life HAS been affected by the current state of things. Whether it be in your home, the workplace or trying to get medical care.

And even if, on the miniscule chance you have led the most charmed life in existence, how can you not understand that other women need feminism. Both at home in the UK and around the world.

Men aren't fighting for us. Some agree there's a need, some support us, but the only ones actually going out and risking themselves are women. Fighting for you, your daughters, your granddaughters and those who can't fight for themselves.

I'm not saying you need to burn your bra and chain yourself to Buckingham Palace.

I AM saying that every time a women talks dismissively about feminism or the need for feminism, they are letting themselves and other women down. And frankly showing themselves up.

If you want to keep your current rights, you can't "keep an open mind" about feminism because it's totally okay to not be one.

We arent just trying to achieve equality, we are hanging on by our fingernails to keep what we currently have. The men in power, whether through plain old misogyny or for religious reasons, don't give two shits about us. In fact, many of them are actively working against us. Why would they want to change a society that is built for them. From medical testing to the laws. With less than 1% of rapes leading to convictions it is basically decriminalised.

A friend who literally had her rapist admitting to it and apologising on WhatsApp was told by police that "pursuing this will cause you more emotional stress with likely no positive outcome". So she just went home.

I was told outright when I tried to report my father that a community man like him absolutely wouldn't do those things.

I now open my mouth for the girls TODAY going through what I did and the women facing every level of misogyny. Which is hatred. It is hatred against women in varying forms and strengths.

Everyone saying "feminists hate men" don't seem to quite understand... We are just trying to deal with the very real reality that many, many, many men hate US and their hate holds power that we can only dream of. Physically, legally, and in pretty much every aspect of life.

They will use our bodies for sex and reproduction. They will keep us sweet with a ring and a joint mortgage. They will babysit their own children occasionally... But MOST men will give you resistance if you push for real, true equality at home. And they certainly won't help you try and achieve it outside the home.

Because loud women, opinionated women are embarrassing.

Don't make a scene love.

Let's all sit nicely and be grateful for what we're given... And as long as our privilege cushions us from suffering when certain rights are taken away, we can just say "oh dear, that's sad".

OP, I would sit down with your DH and ask him to clarify, in detail EXACTLY what he means... Then go from there.
Pay attention to his answers because they will likely impact the rest of your marriage.

There's no such thing as feminism. Before you start shouting and turn your brain off, listen to the reason why. Feminism once meant women's suffrage - the right to vote - later it included allowing women to work, have their own bank accounts, making rape in marriage a crime. So far so good.

Then it was hijacked. Now, being a feminist means you can believe quite literally all of these:

Porn is deeply harmful, porn is great, prostitution is just fun and larks and eMpOwErInG, prostitution is sex trafficking, being a pickme and kowtowing to men is yOuR oWn ChOiCe, not including men in everything is fine and often necessary.

And then there is radical feminism whose proponents sometimes make the demand that the only way to be a feminist is to completely exclude men from your life and abort male babies.

Yes, some feminists really really do say this, no matter whether you like that reality or not. Just look up "feminism separatism".

Then there are the stay at home mothers who say they're feminists, and those who say you can't be a feminist if you don't go back to work.

The issue is that there are no agreed ideals, goals or beliefs. Literally anyone can say "I'm a feminist" and bend the meaning to suit their own beliefs.

And that's why feminism doesn't exist.

Rather an overreaction OP

I am with him 100% you can be a decent person without sticking a label on it, with your attitude it might benefit him if you do leave him and yes you did sound dramatic if it happened the way it comes across

Your DH sounds a very sensible man.

There are plenty of feminists, including professional ones, who would give a much more specific set of ideological boxes you are supposed to tick to be considered a feminist.

Perhaps your dh does not like the idea that your son would have to have certain prescribed views about a lot of topics? Maybe he thinks that approach leads to poor thinking?

Lots of feminists don't think men can be feminists anyway. And while I don't really have an opinion on that, most men I've met that call themselves feminists are knobheads.

Your poor DH.

Honestly OP, you sound like a navel gazing lunatic from 1984.