To expect more from marriage? Or is this how married like is?

[savannahsmama]

I’ve been with my husband for 8 years, living together for 5, married for 4. Our daughter’s 3.5. Those first 3-4 years—before the wedding, the pregnancy, moving in —honestly felt like a dream. We didn’t argue at all. Probably because we were always travelling, going out to eat, doing fun stuff.

Then he proposed (really lovely, to be fair), I said yes, we moved in together—and little day-to-day things started to creep in. Like forgetting to put dishes in the dishwasher, soaking the floor after a shower, cancelling plans last minute because a mate had a spare football ticket. The odd snappy comment or silly disagreement. But even then, it was all small stuff and pretty rare. We still felt really solid.

But after the wedding and then getting pregnant, things started getting… heavier. Proper rows, more often. Nothing abusive—no physical or financial stuff, I want to be clear on that—but the arguments got more intense.

And now, it’s both of us constantly annoyed with each other. From my side, it’s: why am I always the one getting up in the night (when she was a baby)? I spend the whole day with the toddler, and then you go straight from work to the pub with your mates because it’s ’part of working’. From his side, he’s strict with our daughter and gets frustrated that she prefers me. I’m too cold and distant to his mum. The house is clean but often messy after a day with my toddler at home (especially if it’s raining or I’ve had to cook a meal and toddler played independently). There’s more but this is just off the top of my head. And I’m not asking to comment on each exact argument, just the fact there’s always some form of tension.

This morning I woke up before him, looked at him sleeping, and remembered how 5-6 years ago, my absolute favourite times were just evenings and mornings with him—those slow, cosy moments where we were just together. And now I’m counting the days until I go on holiday with my parents without him. Not because it’s a beach break or some amazing getaway, but because it’ll be an actual break from him. He’s staying in London.

(And before anyone says “oh, poor guy, working while she’s off enjoying herself”—we’re going on my parents’ money, not his. I don’t spend his money. I holiday, shop etc—on my own cash / savings.)

But you can be.

You sound like Camila: no heart.
Do you like that comparison?

Long-term relationships, esp with kids in the mix, are hard work. It’ll never be like the first flushes of a new romance. Because you know everything about the other person, including all the things that irritate you.

No.1 is you have to be able to communicate. You have to be able to talk about how you’re feeling - and feel heard and find solutions. Your partner also has to be able to talk about how they’re feeling - and feel heard by you and find solutions.

With the life stages of kids, you have to constantly adapt to their needs, which means you have to keeping communicating and finding new solutions.

Young kids do cause a lot of mess and need a lot of attention and fun. You have to expect that. It’s just how it is for a few years. None of us react well to constant fault-finding and critique. Kids are no different: don’t tip those toys out, don’t spill water, don’t cause a mess with your food.

No. 2 is you must have a good sense of humour. Kids respond much better when there’s humour and cameraderie, as we all do, e.g.: “Blimey, look at all these toys, let’s tidy up, I’ll race you” or “Oh, you silly billy, you’re spilling water all over the floor, let’s wipe it up”. They need to be shown what the solution is. They learn how to behave from their parents, rather than being told.

Kids get quite upset with harsh, stern words, which should only be used if they’ve done something unsafe, unkind to others or really naughty. If your DH can have fun with your DD, she’ll probably enjoy being with him more. However, kids do have a habit of playing parents off against each other, so you have to work as a team and not undermine each other. If your DD is with him and crying for you, why is he filming her rather than distracting her with something fun?

Could you and your DH have a weekend away together, just the two of you, where you could go for a lovely walk and openly and honestly chat about the challenges you’re having and suggest solutions?

Well she has a choice really, doesn't she? She can support his parenting and try to help things improve, or do nothing and nothing will change. She's already said she doesn't want to separate.

It's why I asked if he had siblings with children. He needs to experience other people parenting, see how things are done, gain confidence and learn to be a better parent. It's not happening in their current set up, but maybe it could happen if changes were made.

OP you have mum friends that you spend time with, with your children. Does he have dad friends that he could do the same with, visits to the park for example? Do you go out with other families in a group?

Can ... or may?

Honestly I'd be giving him the ultimatum of divorce or therapy. If he won't entertain the latter then you know where you stand.

I've been with DH 15 years married for 10 with young children, moved in with each other after a year. We had 9 years before DD came along. I think children change all marriages. The key is being able to communicate and work together. DH is my best mate, we've absolutely had wobbles. I've had to open up more and talk before I get to the exploding point. He's had to work on being more empathetic. He works FT and I work PT with some voluntary work alongside it.

I think part of the problem is you are dismissing the money questions but these issues may have something to do with money. You having it without having to work for it (unfair as cant choose whether to be born in poverty or wealth) and him feeling like he has to work hard just to get an equivalent of what you contribute even though you are not working. Maybe that is why he does not get why he has to wake up at night to tend to the baby when he is the one who has to wake up and go to work? Or maybe he is wondering why you are not getting someone to help around the house since you have money and that is why it is messy (which is tupid because kids will always make the house look messy even with 10 nannies and cleaners following them around). It could also be just an insecurity on his part that you are bringing in the house, cars, paying for holidays and he is just insecure
about it? Ultimately, you both need couples counselling to figure out what the issue is but I am betting it is a money insecurity thing.

This is an excellent post.

This this this.

it’s constant. Men are not given the space, to parent. Often women around them jump in To save or to offer advice and correct. Mothers do not get this same level or hand holding or interference.

eventually they give up or enjoy the incompetence.

i have seen a few men tell others around them to back off and let them
parent but it is few and far between.

He honestly seems emotionally immature. I don’t see how that can change.

maybe you have to accept your lot and once Dd is older you can end it. At worst it just seems as if life is dull and he has the range of a teaspoon.

and possibly once DD is anout 5 and little more independent he is able to engage with her a little better.

Hmm I think marriage counselling would be worth exploring.

I don’t know if it’s typical as I only have my own experience. I’ve been with my dh for a few decades now and no matter what stage of life we both are in we sit and try to resolve problems. I think the key issue you look out for is resentment, once that creeps in communication methods slip and that’s why counselling would be good.

It's easy to spot the stroppy men posting here...

Truly, my husband always looked after our children on Saturdays and Sundays. When I also worked on Mondays, someone came for three hours, but as soon as my husband came in from work, he made dinner, fed the children and bathed them and put them to bed. I didn't get back until 10pm.

Men can't duck out of parenting but equally, women shouldn't imagine that they themselves are more capable than their husbands.

I absolutely believe that young babies need and prefer their mothers, and I breastfed all of our children. But my husband woke up at night and settled them down and changed their nappies after I'd fed them.

OP's husband has either never been interested in looking after his daughter, or the OP has deliberately kept him out. Or possibly they've just fallen into very bad habits, which are going to be extremely hard to break if this marriage is to survive.

I would not give a man the space to parent if he has shown he is a rubbish parent and has no intention of improving.

If they can spend hours researching what tv to get, they can watch a couple of videos on how to parent. Shouting at a 3yr old for spilling water and putting her toys out of reach as a punishment is not good parenting. I assume the OP has mentioned this in some form but her husband is not willing to hear that he isn’t good at parenting.

Why is it women’s job to fixed the relationship between a man’s children and the man just because he’s useless at childcare? It should take one or two conversations to sort out. If it doesn’t, he’s just not willing to put his children before his ego.

The poor toddler us not the proper place for the incompetent man child to practice parenting. Its not something one gets better at if one does not grasp there is a problem. He doesn’t think there is something wrong with his approach.

Also I detest these posts where posters fall all over themselves to support poor men who don’t know how to parent and who bleat about giving them time. He is awful to his child. How much harm is done to her while he figures it out? The onus is on him to get some parenting skills.

Will take two to fix this. This sounds like a real crossroads. It’s not just the arguments—it’s the loss of ease and connection. That’s common after kids and years together, but if tension is constant, it needs addressing.

The break may give you space to think. If you want to rebuild, it’ll take honest talks—not just about chores, but how you’re both really feeling. Love is still possible, but it won’t fix itself.

I'd put good money on him being parented by a similarly critical and strict parent - unless OP steps in then the cycle continues with their daughter.

This is also why he can't deal with acknowledging he's doing a bad job at parenting, having been criticised throughout his childhood he's probably hypersensitive to it.

None of this is an excuse. Just confirmation that his issue isn't that he hasn't been given the space to learn how to parent. He needs therapy and some level of self reflection before being let loose on this poor child for long stretches of time

@AgathaX no nieces / nephews from either side so he doesn’t have close experience of kids.

you make a good point about dad friends though! I’ll try to convert some mum friends into family friends to include the dads, and hopefully show my husband how other people parent

💯

You're never going to be a team. He has to work to survive, and you don't. You're on different planets, quite frankly. If you are so rich, why don't you let him jack his job in? If I won the lottery tomorrow, the first thing I'd do is tell my DH to hand in his notice. I wouldn't sit on my wealth and watch him going out to work.

Having money is great, but when you haven't earned it yourself, and you don't have any job, I just don't think you get much satisfaction from any achievements, as they haven't been worked for - and here you are - loads of money, no work to go to, a cleaner, and you're still not happy.

You say :
working again: I genuinely hated working and really enjoy my time with my daughter, our little days out, the conversations etc. I wouldn’t swap it. Yes, perhaps when she’s much older and any future potential children are much older I may consider it. Or may not

No one will give you a job! You will have a blank CV. What about when your daughter is grown and gone. What then?

In what way?

Just reverse the roles here.

If this was the mum working full time while the dad stayed at home and lived on family money and looked after a single 4 year old child, there is no way mumsnet would be defending the guy.

This is a bizarre financial situation for a married couple with a child, and can't just be handwaved away as not part of the problem.

Agreed!

OP I think being financially independent is great. All women should be = choice.

I would not be with a man who doesn’t know how to parent their child. And I will tell you as a lone parent of 15 years it’s a lot easier than a life with a manchild in it.

Maybe splitting and co-parenting might be best for all of you. Right now your daughter is learning dysfunctional relationship dynamics.

We have been together for 30 years. Those early years were hard. Goodness we bickered and argued about all sorts of stuff.

However, there were two crucial differences to your situation. Firstly, we were genuinely equal parents from day one. I can say hand on heart that my husband has changed as many nappies, done as many bath times and performed as many school runs as I have. I work full-time as well and I would not have accepted it any other way. We are equals.

The other factor is that we discuss everything. Sometimes it was discussed irritably, sometimes we were able to be more reflective. But the bottom line is that we ironed everything out when it happens. There was no sulking or long drawn-out arguments. The kids have now left home and we have reached a different understanding in our relationship. We have changed as the kids have changed. We intend to stay together till the end.

I think you really need to bite the bullet and let him do more bath times and solo parenting. Nothing will change otherwise; it is not fair to anyone. Imagine if the worst happened or even if you just had to go to hospital for a month. A child needs to be as comfortable with their dad as their mum, Whatever childcare you have available.

I could not be with somebody who was unable to talk about their feelings or resolve arguments. However wealthy I was, that would make me feel as lonely as hell.

I hope you can get through this OP. No money in the world can make up for an unhappy marriage and bad atmosphere at home. You all deserve better.