Surrogacy in Mexico

[courageiscontagious]

I want LGBTQ people to have families but I am so conflicted about things like this. This article barely mentions the women that are pregnant. It also really grinds my gears when couples clearly value their own genetic ties (eg here it’s two men who by design will be the genetic parent of one child each who share the same genetic mother) but apparently don’t think their child’s genetic ties and sense of identity matter as much. They’ve chosen for their children to never know their genetic mother, and they’ve also chosen for their children to have genetic half siblings.

surely if genetic ties are important- then the children’s best interests should override the parents wishes? If you were the child in that situation wouldn’t you prefer to know your mother? And failing that, for your sibling to be a full sibling and not a half sibling?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/health-wellness/2025/06/03/lgbtq-fertility-ivf-family-planning/83942271007/

I want to be feeling like this is good but it really rubs me the wrong way when they approach these things from an LGBTQ perspective only, glossing over the women and children in the story and what might be best for them.

this story is about how expensive it is. Should it be cheap to rent people to grow babies for you?

thats my rant, please point me to some literature that will educate me so I can get behind this and go back to being a better LGBTQ ally.

https://www.instagram.com/matttolbert?igsh=MTA5eWp4Z2dlZjQ2Mg==

they are already monetising these children. Not related but I also have a big problem with influencers putting their children’s lives online. I wish it was illegal.

these children don’t even have privacy in utero!

And when they complain about others costs like the passports, lawyers fees, international red tape- those are all measures to prevent child trafficking… so maybe they are important as well.

It is vile to treat people as things.

Definitely agree with the latter.

I actually follow this guy on instagram, it appeared on my feed so I clicked follow to see how the embryo transfers worked out. I think what I find quite vulgar is that they have 2 women doing it, why can’t they be satisfied with 1 baby at a time? I mean it’s hard work to look after 2 babies. Not least 2 babies a couple of months apart in age so not on same feeding schedule.

@Zanatdyseems really naive about what small babies are like. At least twins are at the same developmental stage and have a chance of syncing up their sleep.

You should start the conversation.

The entitlement of gay men wishing to commodify women's bodies to buy a baby to order, really really needs addressing so that it is very much viewed as the WRONG thing to do - rather than an acceptable way to become a parent.

Surrogacy is revolting.

Vile is an inflammatory word - it’s deeply cruel to the child and utterly selfish of the purchasing adults involved. It may be all toys and day trips while the child grows up (at best, the worst case scenario doesn’t need describing I’ll leave to your intelligence to imagine what damage two inappropriate men could do to a child growing up in their house over a lifetime), but it changes as they grow up and have questions/want to understand their heritage, have illnesses, want and need to understand their genetics. Not to mention that guidance and bond from their birth mother and father, so a male and female adult, plus grandparents, cousins, uncles and aunts with a strong tie to the child. I know this is not the case for loads of kids born and raised by their natural parent/s (me included), but this is the ideal scenario. Even the happiest of adoptions can lead instability growing up and as adults.
The “vile” bit is the fact it’s all intentionally created to please the purchasing adults and it’s becoming easier and more widespread which means it’s more casual and fast turnaround.
It’s not about giving an abandoned or orphaned child the best start they can have with a loving family after circumstances have meant they’re alone or at risk from their natural parents. It’s the purposeful and at will creation of this scenario that exacerbates the risks. We all know men get women pregnant all the time and abandon them without so much as a backward glance. Women hardly ever abandon their children. Two men who buy a baby together then split up - the baby is a daily reminder of their ex, they get a new partner, child is in the way, etc etc. It’s a whole different set up to single moms with that fierce protective instinct plus the heavy dose of societal conditioning and expectations that men don’t have.
It’s just about hope for the best case, plan for the worst, for the baby, not the adults. I’m sure lots of gay men are great parents, but there’s a whole spectrum of how this becomes possible and making it too easy for people to create a child with genetic ties all over the place to be raised thousands of miles from their genetic family, never to be seen again doesn’t sit right with me. If it was mandatory that the birth mother was known to the baby from day 1, with regular access to her and any wider family then I’d feel more comfortable with it I think.
Maybe I feel more strongly about this because I didn’t have the ideal family structure growing up, and my kids don’t either, but I think it’s the outliers/worst case scenarios that need to be protected here - because I see the impact of childhood on kids and adults I know, and we need to be protecting and supporting them, not creating more and more risky environments for babies and children.

Not necassarily the case i had twins and of course tried to get them on the same feeding schedule. Ever tried breast feeding two babies ?!! It can be bloody difficult, however mine where prem which does affect their ability not only to latch on well, but to stay awake to take a decent feed. Hope they cope with the fwedibg demands, they sound dreadfully unaware, hope their relatioship can withstand it. Seems very selfish, arrogant and entitled.

Surrogacy should be banned. Babies are not commodities to be sold and trafficked. Any “trade” in womens bodies should be illegal. Surrogacy, Prostitution and porn, these all exploit the most vulnerable in our society

Presumably they'll go back to work after a few weeks and pay a (female) nanny to do the hard yards

Its cheaper to have them the same age less years of childcare to pay for / more cost efficient

@LumpyMashedPotato I think just about everyone in America has to find childcare and go back to work fairly quickly. They don’t have maternity leave.

they haven’t said who will be caring for the babies.

Also cheaper as they need to fly to Mexico etc. They did a video the other day on why doing both together and cost was a big factor.

Newborn babies are genetically programmed to be close to mum for an extended period after birth. Evolutionarily speaking, we as a species have developed the strong instinct- both mother and baby- to bond with one another and to stay together after birth, because that is safest for the survival of the baby. Studies have shown that going against that instinct and ignoring that bond is harmful, particularly for the baby and particularly in terms of neurological and emotional development.

There is some wild homophobia on this thread, but I can't agree with surrogacy at all because of the damage done to babies in order to fulfil an adult's want. (Though I do understand that want, and empathise with anyone struggling to become a parent.)

You can be against surrogacy and that’s fine but I don’t agree that men can’t be good parents and that it shouldn’t be normalised. Plenty of gay men adopt. I don’t see anything wrong with that. There are women who are terrible parents. Just because a clone of your dh would be crap doesn’t mean everyone is the same.

Mexico seems to be the place at the moment. There is quite a high profile British organisation doing this. I can't believe how blinkered they are and how they cannot see this as exploitative. It also seems they have learnt nothing from the issues like there were in Ukraine and during Covid where the babies could not leave the country.

The two at the same time thing makes it seem like they couldn’t agree on who would be the biological father, so they both did it to make it fair.

Men paying women to do as they want them to with their bodies. Well anit that just a tale as old as time just with today’s science.

Surrogacy should be banned entirely apart from truly known ultraistic where it’s a family member or close friend who truly wants to do it.

What an absolute load of bollocks. 🙄 Of course men can raise children - your ridiculous anecdote of a shit dad doesn’t mean there aren’t many men making a fantastic job of raising kids. It’s not a “woman’s job”. 🤦‍♀️

I remember giving birth and my sons snuffling for me, smelling me, and crying until they were on me. Babies are desperate for their mothers. To rip them away from that on purpose - I understand sometimes by necessity it has to happen - is unconscionable to me. We don’t even do it to puppies! They have to be weeks old before they are removed. But human babies can be taken from everything they’ve ever known and handed over at birth, if the parents are Rich enough

I don’t agree that gay men can’t be good dads. I just don’t see many situations where it could come about without someone being exploited.

@OhCalmTheFuckDownMargaret it is treating a baby as a commodity, with no regard on how the child could be impacted and also treating the surrogate as just a womb that can be bought. How many rich women are surrogates? Why do many people go to foreign countries for their surrogates?

Regulation around adoption has changed for a reason. It used to be all about the adopters becoming parents, nothing about the welfare of the child or birth mother eg Magdalene laundries. But now the primary focus is what is best for the child. The child isn’t created simply to be adopted, the child is adopted due to unfortunate circumstances and last resort.

No such regulation or thought about what is best for the child (or birth mother) comes into play when looking at surrogacy, it is all about the eventual parents.

Which only goes to show they are prioritising their own wants and desires rather than doing what’s best for a small baby.

Paying women for the use of their bodies, is vile. I don’t see that it requires much thought beyond that. People know instinctively this is wrong. They just choose to ignore the obvious because they want what they want.

There are many straight couples who unfortunately cannot conceive a baby and the majority don’t turn to surrogacy. A male gay couple cannot conceive a baby either so they shouldn’t buy a poor woman’s body to grow one of the men’s biological child. There’s no excuse for surrogacy and it should be banned.

Because a baby has a right to a mother. They're not far off invitro gestation. Which will see babies being born without any parents in the world. Nobody with that deep connection to love and call their own. Just thrown into existence so radically alone in the world. Forgive me, but I might go so far as to say that anyone who considers surrogacy as not a big deal is fundamentally ignorant of infant development in a way that should disqualify them from having anything to do with developing infants.