Junior Doctors Unemployment in August part 2

[PurpleFairyLights]

Following on from previous thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5337022-junior-doctors-unemployment-in-august?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Not hard for me to grasp at all. You come across as looking down on mere mortals.We were talking about empathy. Are you a doctor?

@PurpleFairyLights I do hope not !!!!!!

@PurpleFairyLights me thinks some people are getting a little rattled 😊. More and more press coverage, more social media chatter from
the public. Word is spreading. People want to see a doctor, we have enough of them, so employers them !

It’s almost like BAPIO are here ……

On the first Wednesday of August I think there will be huge exposure in the press.

The problem is doctor training is difficult to understand unless you are a doctor or related to one. The public really need to know why we are putting doctors through medical school and now the have 1 in 5 chance of getting a specialty training post. 12000 training posts against 60000 applications.

Why are some doctors agreeing with this state of affairs when they did not experience this themselves?

Things are different now than they were 5 years ago, which is different to 10 yrs ago, 15 yrs ago and 20yrs ago - attempts have been made to modernise and improve training. I have never denied things are different.

Late 1990s was Calmanisation - lot of people screwed over and left the country for OZ/NZ
2007 MMC was launched and the effects started to be noticeable from 2009 - 2010 - when poor bastards with 3-4 yrs training suddenly found that the brand new FY1/2 had been given run through training which they wee not eligible to apply for and now the higher training number had been given away and there was no where for them to go. Lots of people left a career they had been pursuing for 4-5 yrs because the FY1s and FY2s had priority. God help you if you had decided to take a job and learn some plastics / gen surg for your career in O&G or Ortho - you wee then considered to experienced and life was v shitty for some years.

So yes things have never been plain sailing- there are other issues that have affected people on top of that.

I know nothing about doctors or the medical profession but like all uk residents I am a potential patient.

sorry mumsneedwine I hope you don’t get to practise on me until you have lost your sense of entitlement about a piece of paper and gain a bit more respect for experience and your team workers. I would be very glad to be treated by wannabewitch who seems to have functional relationships and respect for her colleagues.

It’s not a race to the bottom surely?. Throwing insults at others does not make you look better. I appreciate you are frustrated but don’t take it out on others who paid for their education on a promise of a job too.

@Greengagesnfennel maybe read the thread first. I’m not a doctor. But I deal with hundreds of them and the Unis admission departments. I’ll listen to the consultants I know over some random on the internet who sneers at working class people and has no empathy for others.

BAPIO are coming in force. We have them annoyed 😊

@PurpleFairyLights because they making money out of it all ? Or are just ignorant 🤷‍♀️. I agree, August is going to be a shit show. Already know of the F2s at one hospital planning to go all
sign on together. 29 of them. All tried for every job going, pleaded with consultants and keeping going.

But according to the ‘doctors’ on here they are just rubbish at their job.

Why do people think we’d make this up ? What do we have to gain ? I have better things to do than argue with random ‘doctors’ on here. But by doing so we have got the word out just a little bit. More and more coverage every day.

@Greengagesnfennel read the comments that sneer and patronise my students and maybe you’ll
understand my anger.

Again. This.

This. Rude ? Very

Still waiting for that list of Unis ? 😂

No one has ever said they are rubbish at their jobs - your claims ae becoming more histrionic

@wannabewitchdo you believe there is an unprecedented issue with Doctor unemployment today, which has not existed before?

@wannabewitch oh yes you have. You’ve used other words but that is what you have insinuated. Maybe do a reflection / will make you a better doctor.

Still waiting for that list of Unis ???

PS hysterical is such misogynistic term. Bit like ‘mummies’.

I'm afraid wannabe does not believe that there is a problem.

Has been here for days trying to broaden the scope of the argument.

We have had to endure posts about PAs, specialist nurses and other Allied Health Professionals. Does not seem to understand that they can start their own threads. This was started due to large scale resident doctor unemployment in August.

We had this in the first thread too. It was a similar scenario.

Totally agree it really is.

Me too.

Omg I missed this. Who wrote this?

Please find where I have said they are rubbish - I have said people may not be ready yet, suited to the speciality they want - but never said they were rubbish. Not everyone is ready to progress at the same rate.

We have an F2 at the moment - v intelligent, work hards, has ticked every portfolio box on paper he has done it
But he has zero empathy, has just about passable multi disciplinary team working skills, lacks a degree of physical co ordination and has little insight into his own limitations.

On mums criteria he should absolutely get the number he wants and progress.
Thtat would be a disaster for him, patient care and his colleagues
A number of us have taken a not insignficant amount of our own time to mentor, guide and suggest alternatives to what he wants, made opportunities for him in other departments. He did not listen and applied and failed to get a number. Last week he came to us and the penny has dropped and he was off visiting one of the departments we suggested and he would thrive in. That is what mentoring is about - helping people and guiding them when they can not always see the right path. So yes he faces unemployment by your criteria but actually has already been offered work - not a training job - in what he will excel in.

That is a success in my eyes but if he had been guaranteed a job everyone including him would be worse off. He is not alone and is why I will continue to contest some of you assertions.

Not trying to broaden the scope but objecting to you blaming innocent people for the current issues.
As I did not mention unis being first or second class - I am unable to answer the question - so stop asking me.

Well someone did. And I’m still waiting for an answer. Not everything is directed at you !