Junior Doctors Unemployment in August part 2

[PurpleFairyLights]

Following on from previous thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5337022-junior-doctors-unemployment-in-august?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

😂 well we are just mummies. We can’t possibly also have careers as important as theirs.

Your quote:

How do people suggest we treat these awful IMGS who stole jobs from rightful UKMGs and got training slots and jobs from August. Shall we refuse to teach them because they are not UKMGs?

No one said IMGs have stolen jobs. Enough with the disinformation about the thread & blaming of OP and others with legitimate concerns re the unprecedented numbers facing employment in August. Further details about how the employment issue (relating to IMG & UKMG) will be dealt will be clearer once details about the 10 year Health Plan are announced.

Marchesman, they're waging 'a battle' (aka pontificating) because they're affronted that their DC haven't achieved a straight passage through, or were greatly concerned that they wouldn't achieve it. That was where these threads started. Lots of posts about Australia being the end of the world (kind of fair, I'll give them that), no LED jobs (due to not being able to apply after a long shift or even on days off because sport/ relaxation/ social life was the priority), IMGs not being capable of being understood, PAs being close cousins of the devil etc. Then the allegations that the whole system was unfair because people with additional degrees got extra points etc, and published research scored points too but what with the need to relax and have a social life that disadvantaged their DC too. Then the fact that some graduates from medical schools generally seem to do better at securing training posts - that caused major combustion, even when explained perfectly civilly that actually yes, if you start out with higher prior attainment because you're towards the top end of a cohort in terms of intelligence and potential, then you probably are actually going to climb the ladder more easily. And you know, empathy is a wonderful thing but in terms of progressing up the medical career ladder then a strong aptitude for science probably does pip empathy at the post. But goodness the outrage at that!

Your penultimate paragraph is critical. Wes Streeting has said no more consultants. There's none so deaf etc. He's also already put in caveats in what he's said about priority for UK MGs. Those are being ignored too. I don't get the impression that he's 'listened' to MN mothers at all. They're shouting into an abyss. Of course they won't make a difference to any policy formulated around this. He'll be listening to the medical professionals who are properly informed and he'll be listening to the people who can work out the economics of it all. And on these threads there seems to be a stark divide the medical professionals and those whose concern is much closer to home, despite the very weak efforts to make the concern appear universal (or national, to be more accurate).

It's the stuff of folly to crack open the champagne ahead of reading the detail in the plan, particularly given the qualifications that have already been put in the public domain.

They are proceeding on merit of gaining an MBBS and successfully completing F1 and F2. For specialty training applications they are competing against other UK MGs.

I am surprised that a second consultant has come onto this thread and started to undermine UKMGs and UK medical education.

You have been goading over the two threads.You exagerate and make stuff up.

i have never assumed anyone is anything.

"You have been unpleasant about UKMGs and questioning their proficiency to go into training and the final insult was your post about patient safety. "

No not questioned everyone's proficiency, just pointed out that not everyone is ready to progress at the same time for a multitude of reasons but by guaranteeing progression this is actually a disservice to them and to patients. Competition is good for healthcare for those of us who are in the profession we recognise this.

i responded to a post about patient safety - which I do take seriously every day. But the belief that not employing PAs, AHPS and only doctors makes health care safer is simply not true. Those of us who do work in healthcare realsie none fo us can do our jobs wihtout the other.

Please tell me what I have made up?
Educated a few on Calman, MMC, ARCP etc but no lies

"They are proceeding on merit of gaining an MBBS and successfully completing F1 and F2. For specialty training applications they are competing against other UK MGs"
But much of this thread has been about UKMGs being guaranteed a training post. So even if you are on the bottom of the bell curve, you should progress because you are a UKMG and you should have a job.

UKMGs are going to get priority.

Why would we think anyone other than us would be reading these posts?

Although it has been on LBC twice and there was shock that the UK had allowed this to happen.

You are out of touch.

@Sevillian nah sorry, my DD has managed a direct passage all the way to CCT. Try again.

@wannabewitch again you lie. No one has ever said every F2 should go straight to training.

Reading skills are severely lacking !

UKGs will get priority. It’s what the country wants 😊

Incorrect PurpleFairlyLights, quite the opposite: I'm very in touch.

All the heightened emotion on these threads has been justified by the need to raise awareness. You've used the terminology of battle. There have been exhortations to write to MPs, start a petition. 'Wes is listening!'.

All absurd.

@Sevillian you are v v out of touch with any reality seen in the UK.

Incorrect PurpleFairlyLights. I'm very in touch indeed.

Please don’t pretend that it’s anything about being a mummie (you were the one that said this, the other poster said over-invested mums which is pretty fair).

Obviously your experience is not as relevant to this thread as the experience of doctors. If this was a thread talking about teaching science, your experience would be more relevant then theirs. To pretend that you have the same knowledge about a career in medicine as a medic is embarrassing.

OP, your refusal to state your job makes it clear that you’re not a doctor. The fact you ask others if they are, means that you recognise that doctors are more qualified to speak on this matter than non-doctors. Your comment “why do you assume I’m not a doctor” after refusing over multiple comments to confirm whether you are is strange and makes it seem like you’re embarrassed about what you actually do.

Saying that people are unwise for disclosing the fact that they are doctors on here is a blatant attempt to get them to stop commenting because you know they make better points than you. I would have no idea where any of the medics here work or who they are.

I would be absolutely mortified if I found out my mum had engaged, over several days, on a thread she started about my career. I would also hate for her to be scrolling through the Reddit page for my career.

My mum can be a bit overinvested in my training, and it’s fustrating. I wish she would get her own hobby, as it’s like my career is now part of her identity. If I found out she’d started several 20 page threads about my job (and my failure to secure a training place) it would drive a real wedge in our relationship.

‘Heightened emotions’. So hit like bring hysterical again. Misogyny again.

@BlueGreenPanda as have been called ‘just mummies’ v v v many times in a v patronising manner. Read the thread

Yes you told this forum that your DD had got a place on one of the run through pathways.

But until that news came through you were wailing and gnashing your teeth with the best of them.

I'm a bit late to the party but this thread is comedy gold! Just read mumsneedwine saying that 10 years of helping kids with their UCAS forms gives her medical experience !

@BlueGreenPanda and again, read the thread as to why I’m here. I can name 90% of Uni Medicine leads, can you ? And my DD is fine so not about her.

@TheFancyDuck yes, that’s all I do. Oh besides being on 3 WP Medicine admissions committees. Were you at the conference this week ? No ?

@Sevillian I’m still ‘wailing and nashing my teeth with the best of them’ ? Because this is not about my kid, but about all resident doctors. Some of us are not just caring about ourselves.

Amazing how a bunch of brand new posters has suddenly rocked up together. Why would anyone bother to read the whole thread ?? Strange behaviour for a Saturday night.

Your DD was practically buying a one way ticket to Australia is what you said in the earlier threads. You mentioned it a lot.

Hopefully you're aware that a run though pathway nevertheless has various stages to get through. Your DD may not have told you this and it's not clear how much you know. But it only avoids the need for a re-application in a couple of years time, which takes some stress off for sure. But consultancy isn't a given.

I included the silent g mumsneedwine.

Not sarcastically.

😂😂 oh you are funny @Sevillian. You just can’t stop being bitchy.

My DD had a job in Aus as back up. So ? Better than being unemployed. But she’s now staying here.