Junior Doctors Unemployment in August part 2

[PurpleFairyLights]

Following on from previous thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5337022-junior-doctors-unemployment-in-august?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

I’m awaiting their next insult. Any bets ?

Cycles through a couple of main insults so I think it will be racism next as intellect done.

Raining asked the question -You asked the question or have you forgotten, I have replied. if you do not want a question to have an answer then do not ask it i the first place. I am not detracting but answering your question.
Should we be striving to protect the medical and nursing professions or not?

The insults have been fairly one sided on this, thread and there is no argument to win because no one disagreed, we put in qualifications and that a blanket guaranteed job after FY2 which was being asked for on the first thread was not right.
The issue of what to do with IMGs from tough to those here can stay has also shown a change in position form the main protagonists on this post.
The vitriol towards PAs and IMGS has been constant and vile throughout. For those of us who have learned so much from IMGs we have defended them and for those of us who have worked with PAs we have defended aswell.

I have refrained from throwing personal insults at the main posters despite immense provocation. There never was an argument to win but I still maintain my corollaries on the rhetoric that all FY2s should get a job preferably training and anything less is an insult to them..

The NHS is changing and increasingly the "medical model" of using drugs as a cure all, just doesn't cut the mustard.

There is much more of an emphasis on wellbeing and healthy living now and to a large extent this has been proved successful.
Eg: The IATPT initiative in GPs surgeries reducing the reliance on psych meds. and
Nurse/pharmacist prescribers for simple conditions. Even Dr Google, meaning patients are much better informed and often present with a clear and accurate self diagnosis.

I recently worked in a mental health team for people with dementia, they had 5 psychiatrists (who I'm sorry to say really did do bugger all except discuss their extravagant holidays) a couple of junior doctors, 11 registered nurses (largely monitoring the effects of medication), one OT, one physio, 2 social worker's. I would say it was most definitely the SWs and therapists who made the most positive impact on patients lives. The medication seemed to have very little effectiveness and yet we invest so much in it.

I have every sympathy with the junior doctors (and nurses and therapists) who are now graduating, the situation looks terrible for them. This change should have been anticipated years ago and the numbers in training should have been reduced accordingly.

@wannabewitch you have insulted me several times. Might think you haven’t.

Weren't you saying the opposite about F2s etc getting jobs in one of previous posts citing patient safety?

No one, ever, has said that every F2 should get a job. But every F2 who is a good doctor who was trained in the NHS should get a job.

You really think you are so superior to everyone who disagrees with you.

Hollibobcat said this - Surely patient safety is much more significant than the career aspirations of any group of young people and their household bills and feelings?

not me

And no one, ever has been vile about IMGs. We have said we no longer have jobs for them in such huge numbers. How is that rude about them ?

Same with PAs. We don’t need them. It’s cheaper to employ a doctor who can do more.

mums- please highlight where I have personally insulted your intelligence, education, background, neurodiversity etc
I leave that to you to do which you manage quite spectacularly

Using PAs on doctor rotas is definitely a patient safety issue.

@wannabewitch 😂😂 you’ve just done it again.

Absolutely and I have read there are PA consultants in A&E but hoping it was a joke.

Another exame of disinformation and an attempt to discredit us.

Agree that this should have anticipated.

There needs to be an investigation about who was involved in this and who had influence over these decisions. There is a fair amount of information available already.

Mums- if calling out you lack of manners is embarrassing you, so you have to rely on claiming it is insulting then I will repeat over 2 threads you have been phenomenally rude to anyone who dares disagree with you. Please feel free to be insulted by a fact

AS to insulting IMGS - yes - they all cheat, by their way in, are grandfathered - if those are not insults , I am ot sure what is.

Currently your tone to IMGS is very condescending - you can have the jobs that UKMGs feel are not good enough, but we need you as cannon fodder for compaint rotas but do not expect to be treated/ trained before an UKMG when you do take one of these. The tone is vile.

Also many of the IMGs applying are not in the country right now - are we guaranteeing them a job aswell or just those who have a work visa?

@wannabewitch read carefully. Every other country in the world gives priority to its own staff. Remaining jobs are open to anyone. Every other country.

How is that a bad attitude or mean to IMGs ? You really do have an agenda.

And not embarrassing (weird comment). You just proved your rudeness v v clearly.

And no one said ‘they all cheat’. No one. You are now openly lying.

You have been goading over the two threads.You exagerate and make stuff up.

We have had to defend ourselves against the stuff you make up. Your disinformation underminds our request for UK graduates to be prioritsed for medical training.

You have been unpleasant about UKMGs and questioning their proficiency to go into training and the final insult was your post about patient safety. This is all clickbait.

IMGs have not been insulted but factual articles and information has been put on this thread. No one group of people is perfect.

Thousands of UK trained doctors to be unemployed in August. It is not an insult to IMGs that we do not have enough capacity. The mention of grandfathering was the Reddit posts saying UK government mayb have to implement a no grandfathering policy in relation to training places in order to prioritise UKMGs.

I

It is utterly ridiculous to claim that "UK medical education is robust".

Since I was appointed to a consultant post, it is an indisputable fact that academic entrance requirements to medicine have fallen, degree content has been lost, and medical training has been catastrophically truncated. The first in the interests of "equality and diversity and inclusion" (EDI), the second for profit, and the third with the EWTD and Calmanisation. ePortfolios, educational supervisors etc, were a sop to Cereberus on the back of Calmanisation and they have done nothing to compensate for other shortcomings. (I have never encountered anyone fail the ePortfolio hurdle, if you could call it a hurdle.)

If UK doctors are given "priority" to enter specialist training it goes without saying that they are not proceeding on merit.

Which a) would be the final nail in the NHS's coffin;
and b) would be hilariously ironic given that EDI largely got us into this position in the first place and the proposed solution is now to deny it to others.

A final irony is that it would make no difference at all to the eventual outcome for the weaker ones because there would still be nowhere for them to go at the end of training.

Quite why people who have zero experience of medicine are pontificating about this so vehemently and persistently is beyond me.

Welcome to the night shift.

Why do you assume I have zero experience of medicine?

How have we ‘no experience’ of medicine ? I’ve been dealing with medicine admissions for over 10 years. Again, you sneer and patronise because we don’t agree with you.

Again, you rubbish UK Unis, how much experience do you have of them all, as by your rules you shouldn’t ’pontificate’ about them ?

@PurpleFairyLights the arrogance ! It’s so strange that people come from all over the world to undergo the training in the UK as it’s soooooo bad. No idea why they’d want to come and work with such uneducated colleagues 😂😊😊

PS for Sevillian, this is called sarcasm.

Am awaiting the incoming insult. Wonder what this one will be 🤔

I am waiting for one too.

I never thought that in 2025 someone would identify as a doctor online (not a great idea) and then automatically assume a woman and mother of a doctor is not a doctor herself.