Junior Doctors Unemployment in August part 2

[PurpleFairyLights]

Following on from previous thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5337022-junior-doctors-unemployment-in-august?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

2025 will be so much worse

I will only reply to parts of your posts that I choose to reply to. This is called free will. Why does it matter to you that I think an investigation is needed?

I owe you nothing especially after you offered you make some of your post "simpler" for me so I could understand and there was an undertone about my mental capacity to understand.

Your faux apology was an absolute classic.

@PurpleFairyLights have they started insulting you too 😂

I’m referencing this:

You asked me: "Please can you explain what you feel are good points Wannabe and Co have posted regarding UK not prioritising its own (ready to progress) medical graduates that will lead to 20,000 unemployed doctors in August" I responded with: this is (I believe) a good point: “Can you explain why you think specialty training should be open to the world? Every other country in the world prioritise their own graduates.

• I have never said it should, but I do think a percentage should be open to the world. Diversity is always an asset. Without it - where would we have got the Magdi Yacoub's of this world, Lord Darzi and many others.”

This comment shows that Wannabe does not and has not supported the idea that the UK should not prioritise UK grads, as you claimed”

But then the OP refused to respond that and began talking about something else, in an attempt to derail the comment.

As ive said, I don’t disagree with your point that we should try to prioritise UK grads. I haven’t actually seen any comments that do.

People disagree with the tone of the thread and the unwillingness to consider different views without name calling.

Absolutely😂

Interesting that you skipped over my post @PurpleFairyLights - earlier you slipped in about a friend voting Reform and all your posts (when not shouting at people) are about people from outside the UK taking our jobs - in this instance doctors within the NHS.

Really? That is a classic when you have insultied me but I have never insulted you.

How does that work?

When have I insulted you?

Which post did I skip over? Sorry are you accusing me of being a Reform voter and/or racist?

I am neither. Do you know my ethnicity?

Why does UK not prioritise its own graduates for specialty training like 195 other countries? Is that racist?

Oh dear you really need to reflect on the posts I described and you apologised for.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1eejd3vx0no

Just checked how prevalent cheating and bribery is. Seems to be a serious problem that recurs every year. It would be foolish to assume all with the high scores and great exam results are getting here on merit! There are articles on this going back for more than a decade.

I have been treated by great NHS doctors (IMGs and UKMGs) however you can't be certain that all IMGs coming through from abroad are the best of the best. That may have been the case years ago but in the last few years, there has been a decline in the standard of some of the IMGs. I certainly had poor NHS treatment at the hands of one such IMG very recently. The bar for getting through to the UK has been lowered post Brexit. CREST forms that needn't be signed off by NHS doctors, PLAB exemptions, easier language requirements have meant that more IMGs are applying successfully than ever before. Given that we already have lots of unemployed doctors, there is no need to lower the bar for new IMGs when there are already IMGs already in the UK without jobs and unemployed UK doctors too.

I don't understand some posters at all. I am not sure whether they have vested interests, use private healthcare and so are not affected or just don't understand the magnitude of the problem.

Why would I be embarrassed not replying to low quality posts especially from someone that has insultedcmy intelligence and harasses me to disclose personal information.

You ignored my point repeatedly and misquoted me several times. I asked if it would be helpful for me to explain things more, as you seemed to either be:

a) deliberately ignoring a point because you knew it contradicted your comment

or
b) genuinely didn't understand and struggled to follow the thread

I chose to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter (because I thought an adult would surely not just derail comments because she/he had no response).

I apologised for making you feel as if I was insulting you. I do not believe that I actually did, but I can't argue about how it made you feel.

I have not harrassed you. You were interested in my (and others) qualifications, and I was interested in yours. You cannot say that others are 'putting you in a mum box' if you're unwilling to disclose anything about yourself other than being a mum a doctor.

Ultimately, your post has had no impact other than making you look silly. You have not spread awareness, nor started a thought-provoking conversation. You have not encouraged the government to review why this happened and you haven't increased training places. If you hadn't been so rude in your comments more people may have engaged and changed their mind, but sadly you're not able to do so.

I am saying that the constant angry posting and refusal to listen to any view point but your own (which is that we prioritise people from other countries for jobs in the UK) may suggest a political viewpoint.
Personally I just want the UK to have the best doctors.
Not interested in your ethnicity - that has no relevance as to whether someone is racist (your word) or not.

Honestly you really do need to read your posts back.

I will do a montage of what you have sent to me this afternoon if I have time as you seem to have forgotten or maybe genuinely unaware of the impact you have.

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt but as I explained earlier I do not answer to you. Sorry if you feel I should take a lot of interest in your posts.

I never asked for your qualifications. Why would I? The thread is about unemployed doctors.

It is not racist to want UK to fall in line with the rest of the world and prioritise UKMGs.

It is a labour policy to prioritise UKMGs.

@PurpleFairyLights I note there has suddenly been a significant interest in your thread. Some posters without affected DCs seem overinvested in your thread. There are many other threads on Mumsnet with parents discussing issues relating to their DCs but yours has really riled some posters! 😂Perhaps they need to offer their insight to other threads. Honestly, I wouldn't bother engaging with some on here.

It is very odd and so many different posters 😂

That would be helpful because I don't think I've been rude at all. and yes, you literally said "are you a doctor?"

You've had several people comment on your rude and aggressive comments here. You've called people vile and disgusting, and said they were talking crap. I've certainly not said anything like that.

But I am going to drop out now, because I don't think this thread is achieving anything at all. You don't respond to anything that doesn't support your existing view, and you misinterpret what people are saying to try to argue.

I initially commented to try to be helpful by expressing that when I didn't get a place on training, what helped me most was my mum just being there. I wouldn't have wanted her to be starting threads or petitions, I just needed some gentle (and then firm) encouragement to get back out there next cycle. I'm sorry for getting drawn into this, and I hope things go well for your DC next year.

"There are many other threads on Mumsnet with parents discussing issues relating to their DCs but yours has really riled some posters! "

Being a doctor, I am interested, have opinion and am free to express it. I expressed it because I did not like the tone / some incorrect information and blatant blaming of other professional groups done in a very unpleasant way.

mumsneedwine - her child did get a training post which is great news -so her opinion is not valid either - if you follow your argument through to its conclusion?

I have not used the word crap and not sure I used vile and disgusting but you did not come back with the proof...

I have explained how I parent my DC.

I do ask people once if they ate doctor and leave it if they do not answer.

I don’t post as a mummie. But as a teacher who has for many years supported students to become doctors. V often from WP backgrounds. Hundreds of them now. And now work with several Unis to improve WP. Lots if them being the ‘best’ according to some on here.

All our opinions are valid. But facts can’t be changed, doctors will be unemployed.

For those thinking that PAs are possibly better qualified than doctors.

https://www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/bma-publishes-shocking-testimony-from-doctors-of-patient-safety-concerns-caused-by-the-nhs-s-use-of-pas-and-aas

Actually, I had experience of my DC being seen by a PA. Hospital staff actually told me there were 2 doctors that day when there was actually only one doctor and one PA. PA was lovely. However, her knowledge was limited. When we asked further questions, she had to go get the doctor. While we waited to be seen by the doctor in the consultation room, the waiting time for other patients got longer. Honestly, the PA degrees should be paused. Physician Associates should be renamed Physician Assistants. Consultants should be training resident doctors instead of PAs.

@OneMorePiece we have hit a nerve. BAPIO don’t like us v much 👍

You have given a lot of incorrect information in your posts. When I have time I will collect them together.

My main concern ate your comments about tick boxes and specialist training. I hope you are going to report your concerns rather than just saying it and doing nothing. The result is underming the whole system Oriel etc.

Saying doctors have more responsibility than nurses and not agreeing with PAs in healthcare are not attacks.