Junior Doctors Unemployment in August part 2

[PurpleFairyLights]

Following on from previous thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5337022-junior-doctors-unemployment-in-august?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

@YouHaveNotFuckedUp what a lovely username you have. I’ve had a lovely day with medical professionals discussing Medicine. I know these people very well and showed them this thread - how is that ‘unprofessional’ ? Many went to some of those ‘not best’ Unis and decided they obviously shouldn’t be employed as consultants, according to many posters. Frankly, I don’t care what you think. Wes has listened and partly this is because people have made enough noise. And we’ll continue to do so.

Me and my unprofessionalism are off the pub to become v unprofessional with a bunch of doctors. 🥂

It would make sense for Wes to give strict priority for the foundation years to UK medical school grads, and priority for LED posts. But not for training posts beyond F2.

Is it just as simple as giving 'points' for a minimum of two years nhs experience?

mumsneedwine I think Wes has listened. He certainly seems capable of listening in a way that some posters on this thread aren’t. But what he does having listened to all the various stakeholders - of which there are many - remains to be seen.

It would suit the government well to have a large pool of good enough doctors working as FY doctors and then LEDs to help move waiting lists along. Especially since these young doctors will be on modest pay but nevertheless repaying student loans. Quite a bonus too if they’re on short term contracts. Of course meanwhile the best of each cohort will go on, as they’ve mostly always done, to progress through the various stages of further training. This sort of arrangement also takes the heat out of the issue of a shortage of consultants to train.

Foundation posts have not suffered as much as specialty posts. I have not heard of any unemployed F1s.

The massive unemployment in August is doctors without a training number not F1s. 60,000 applicants for 12 ,000 specialty training posts.

IMGs want NHS specialty training as most have been doctors for quite a while and it enhances their CV.

Why do you think we should not be prioritising NHS specialty training for UKMGs?

"the NHS culture of cover up and self protection needs doctors with broader international experience to continue to challenge it. " from tryigtokeepgoing.

Your comment does not make sense in the context of what has been discussed on here with IMGs and BAPIO. Where BAPIO have been accused of providing a fast track into the country on the back ground of their local UK conections and overseas connections.

@Sevillian Why not for FY2? Is that not where the real mess lies? Or have I missed something? I don’t think I have….

Of course it would be unprofessional to tout a MN thread around at any conference with a serious purpose and serious people. The delegates might humour someone who did that but they’d definitely think they were incredibly odd. And tbh you’ve got quite a drubbing on this thread so it would be a big old own goal to say hey guys look at all these medical colleagues of yours telling me I’m discourteous, lack understanding etc. It wouldn’t be a brilliant tactic at all.

No you haven’t missed anything at all! I just think that Wes might throw a crumb out in the direction of foundation years and LEDs to create a huge pool of young doctors on short term contracts at relatively low pay. Work horses for the NHS. Perhaps many more LED posts will be created alongside? Or lengthened? We’ll see. Perhaps I’m being way too cynical.

You have not missed anything. The suggestion would mean huge amounts of unemployment after F2 for years.

What has happened to post F2 specialty training since 2019 should be looked at especially how this was allowed to happen.

What do you think the plan would be for IMGs?

How would he clear the backlog of unemployed doctors? It would not be possible to create a lot of short term contacts as the infrastructure is not there.

Yes quite, I’m aware of the bottlenecks. Who isn’t?

But there’s also been a huge amount of criticism over LED posts being difficult for emerging F2s to obtain. I happen to think there’s some mileage in the idea that a large pool of young doctors will be held at this stage, with little prospect of specialty training. I think that may still be open to IMGs, if only for the simple reason that many of them are extremely talented and more experienced than UK trained applicants. And that alongside them, the best UK schooled F2’s will still progress.

That would not be great for anyone long term as no progression but they probably need something like that right now to ward off unemployed UKMG until next August. It would also help bring down waiting lists so could be spun positively.

Wes seems to be saying UKMG priority for jobs and specialty training.

Purple, almost anything can be spun positively!

Not sure 20,000 unemployed doctors that cost UK 250k to train can be spun positively.

Maybe they will create lots of jobs to start in August? We have a very low amount of doctors per capita and that needs to be addressed urgently.

Goodness, @mumsneedwine are you sure they really are doctors? You haven't believed anyone else was a doctor.( @wannabewitch or my husband and some others) You'd better ask to see their GMC card.

@oddandelsewhere I have never questioned anyone being a doctor ? I’ve questioned their empathy and understanding of the current situation, as have several doctors on here. This lot are now shouting their GMC numbers at me and I did wonder why - they’re reading this thread before me now 😂. Enjoy your evening everyone. Wes has started to listen. Let’s hope he keeps doing so 🥂

The ‘best schooled’ 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂.

The best of the UK schooled = the best of those graduating from UK medical schools.

Wes Streeting is listening to everyone not merely the mummies.

Also still blanking questions as he sees fit.

@Sevillian which metric are you using to determine that ? MLA might make sense as they all sit it ? Do you include OSCE scores or just theory ?

All he needs to do is switch back to pre-2019. The Reddit posts also think no grandfathering policy.

I am concerned.

Ah the ‘mummies’ are back 😂😊😂😂. As a mummy I’m v happy thanks as mine has got into training. I’m here as a disgruntled person who supports students to become doctors (assume you’ve missed that part).

@PurpleFairyLights I’ll be concerned until we know the detail and see the Leng review. Because if not favourable this is set to get worse.

The elephant in the room is what are his plans for IMGs already here? UKMGs and IMGs have been treated unfairly but he will have to choose a side.

There are not enough doctor posts for UKMG and IMGs already here.