To say your child isn’t being bullied they have poor social skills

[SpaceRaiders]

DD has a “friend” within her group who is just really quite unpleasant. There’ve been no end of issues since the start, due to this child being an entitled brat. She’s recently asked DD what she’ll be buying her for her birthday, she asked for an item that costs over £100, Dd told her no. She brags and lies over very silly things and can’t stand seeing anyone get acknowledged for good work etc. She gets incredibly jealous and possessive over the girls being friends with each other. And will actively try to manipulate the girls against each other. It all quite toxic. And inevitably when she doesn’t get her way, her mum messages the other mums to step in because she’s feeling left out.

Naturally the girls are finding her intolerable. I’ve had words with the mum, I had to establish a very firm boundary with her for something unrelated. Subsequently I’ve not extended any further invites to her child outside school.

We’re all just waiting for the inevitable call from the school accusing all the girls of bullying. School will likely not manage this properly as this child is as sweet as pie in front of teachers. She’s vying to be head girl. For context she’s an only child and undiagnosed ASD.

I’m putting my hard hat on here, but ND is really no excuse for poor behaviour! And I say this as a parent of ND girls.

The key is "reasonable boundaries". Of course children shouldn't be forced to be friends with someone whose behaviour upsets them, no matter the reason.

"Reasonable boundaries" doesn't mean you get to be mean and nasty about a child who is clearly struggling.

I am confused about why you think the girls are going to be accused of bullying by the school? If all they are doing is putting boundaries in place then why would they be? Hopefully you are encouraging your DD to be respectful and kind to everyone. It sounds like this girl has issues completely unrelated to any possible neurodiversity - being jealous, possessive, and boastful suggests she is very insecure and has low self esteem. So while these behaviours are difficult and putting up boundaries is the right thing to do, why not exercise some empathy and talk to your DD about how she can continue the friendship with boundaries?

And what happens when “reasonable boundaries” haven’t worked? What do you suggest I do then? @CrazyGoatLady

Focus on the behaviour not the child. So rather than "Sally is an unpleasant little brat and we all dislike her and can't imagine how anyone would ever want to be friends with her", reframe it as "Sally is having difficulties at the moment, which is resulting in her behaving in these ways towards my child, that my child doesn't like."

Then it's clear what needs to be addressed. In the long-term, Sally needs to be helped to stop the behaviour in question but in the short-term, your focus is on creating some distance between Sally and your child until the situation improves. No need to demonise the other child. Children mature at different rates, you might find they're friends again in a couple of years.

I haven't said otherwise.

Teacher here. Obviously a big factor is the child's personality, but I think only children definitely require much, much more active parenting/intervention in terms of socialising the kids. It's particularly visible with toddlers.

As tiny tots, many only children have to be taught to share & can take much, much longer to learn to share, give in, not demand all the teacher's attention on them and only them, etc. It's a process whereas it often comes more naturally for those with siblings. And many are lovely after! But if there is not enough active and exhausting teacher/parental involvement, it is less likely to happen naturally.

Learning to share, ask nicely etc is just part of the rough and tumble of having siblings. Those with siblings make social mistakes and are told off at home in a safe environment, or even without parental intervention have a million times more constant opportunity to learn to rub along nicely with others. Whereas when only children learn to share, etc, it's outside of the home which can be a more infrequent as well as harder (emotionally speaking, for kids) lesson.

As I said there are plenty of lovely only children, but parental intervention is much more important for only children IMO.

Yeah was this little girl asked “What do you want for your birthday?” As I would take that to mean what are you hoping to receive for your birthday (from your parent/s) or did your DD definitely ask her what she wanted your DD specifically to get her?

@ButteredRadish - the OP says ”She’s recently asked DD what she’ll be buying her for her birthday, she asked for an item that costs over £100” - so it sounds as if it were the other girl who initiated the conversation, and then told the OP’s dd she wanted something costing £100 - it wasn’t the OPks dd starting the conversation and asking ‘What do you want for your birthday.’ I think that is very different.

I don’t need to know about anyone’s SN here, if it’s bad behaviour I have zero tolerance. She sounds very badly behaved and just someone I wouldn’t want my child to be friends with. So I’m with you.

just stop engaging with the mum. Why are you even entertaining her nonsense in the first place?

It can still be bullying depending on how the girls handle her behaviour though op.

We have a similar situation with DS in Y6.
One boy wanted to play with his friend group but while they weren't nasty to him they just didn't want him to play as he just messed about, jumped on them and was very annoying. The Mum complained to school and DS was told to play with him, I said he didn't have to (as long as there was no bulling) and if needed I would have been happy to reiterate this to school as well.
I was actually pretty good friends with the boys Mum and she asked why he had no friends - I was as diplomatic as possible and said something about different levels of maturity but I had seen this child in action and while he wasn't malicious he was just REALLY annoying with no social awareness.

You'd be surprised at how often this happens.

I'd frequently get parents into my classroom complaining their child was being bullied and having to say. "Whilst I don't condone the fact that Shakeela pushed Jaxon off his chair, she had asked him politely several times to stop trying to put his pencil in her ear." Or, "The thing is, the other children were including Maddie in their game, up to the point when Maddie started screaming and throwing tennis balls at her head as soon as she wasn't winning."

You’d think that all this would be obvious. Instead pp took me providing that context as a personal slight. You learn some lesson very quickly when you have siblings, in a way that you wouldn’t otherwise.

She specifically asked what she was being given. And then offered an expensive item as an option.

You can't control what someone else does, you can only control your actions. When you say the reasonable boundaries haven't worked, it sounds like what you mean is that the mum of the other child is still unhappy about her child being excluded. You can't control her feelings. You also can't control whether or not she complains to the school. If she does, you and the other parents can rationally and sensibly explain why your children do not want to be friends with this girl in a way that as @goldbar suggests, focuses on the problematic behaviours and the impact on your child, not the child herself.

The point that a lot of posters are making here is if you go in saying things like "my daughter doesn't want to be friends with this girl because she's a brat" you WILL look like the bad guy and everyone in that conversation is probably going to think that the mum of the other child has a point, if that's how you word it. You have to be the adult.

You are under no obligation to invite the child to anything. Your child is under no obligation to be friends with anyone she doesn't like, although she should of course treat her civilly. But you can't control the other mum's feelings or perceptions of the situation, control what she says about you, make her feel okay about her child being excluded, or force her to parent her child differently. You can only control what you do.

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

Of course they are allowed reasonable boundaries. No one says everyone must be friends. But there is often quite unpleasant behaviour towards a child who doesn’t quite fit in. It isn’t always the ND child who is the perpetrator.

There's a difference between being deliberately nasty and having poor social skills.
My son is autistic and can be very blunt and occasionally comes across as rude, I have to explain to him why other people might not like what he's said and remind him not to interrupt others, use manners etc.. but he's never intentionally a bully or nasty on purpose. Maybe this girl's mother feels her child is the same way and is worried about her daughter's social life.
The example that you've given with the present isn't really that bad to be honest, it's unrealistic for a friend to buy an expensive present and rude to ask but I don't think it's an example of bullying.

Kids of 13 shouldn't have their parents trying to manage their friendships for them. And 13 is old enough to grasp simple concepts like "if you act like a dick, people won't want to be your friend". If she doesn't know that yet, it's time she learnt. Tell your dd she doesn't have to be friends with people she doesn't like or who don't treat her well, tell the bratty kid's mother (once) you're not going to tell your daughter who to be friends with, then disengage.

And its not always NT kids who are being horrible and bullies because they are not accepting behaviour that upsets them from other people.

It's a bit bizarre to be preemptively expecting a call from school to tell you your child is bullying. And to be preemptively making excuses as to why it isn't true.

Have you been called and told this before? If not it's very strange behaviour.

I don't think they complain on parental request you know, fairly certain they'd have to think there was bullying involved. I'd certainly take it very seriously if I ever received that phone call.

Of course it’s not. Bullying of any kind is nasty, and can have long lasting and sometimes serious consequences.

However, research by MENCAP shows that children with learning disabilities are most likely to be bullied. https://www.mencap.org.uk/sites/default/files/2016-07/Bullying%20wrecks%20lives.pdf

The child is not diagnosed.
Just because the parent says she is doesn't mean she is. Parents 'diagnose' for many reasons but, yes, you are speculating.
Considering your clear issues here and the defensive "wait for the inevitable phone call" it's difficult to say who actually IS the issue 🤷‍♀️