To drink alcohol when my daughter doesn't like me to.

[AnonymousMum37]

Hi, I wanted to ask some advice anonymously.

My 9 year old daughter hates anything she sees as bad for you e.g. alcohol, smoking, tattoos, piercings... . She is autistic and very black and white about what she sees as good and bad.

I have 3 small tattoos (from before she was born), pierced ears, and I enjoy a moderate amount of alcohol (a glass or two of wine with dinner 2/3 nights a week and go out to the pub with friends maybe once a month).

I have never smoked or vaped, but I have some friends who do.

Her reactions are getting unbearable.

She growls at any of my friends who smoke or vape and has decided they are bad people, even if they don't do this near her she knows they do and she therefore hates them. I don't like it either so I can understand but they are not bad people.

She begs me at the supermarket not to buy wine, loudly making a scene as though I'm a raging alcoholic, so I can no longer buy it with the weekly shop as it is mortifying.

She refuses to do her chores unless I promise not to drink anymore. I stupidly relented recently and said that I would not have a drink for a few weeks and then last night I had had a long day and had 2 small glasses of wine with dinner and at bedtime she was screaming and crying saying she can't trust me and I am a liar and I'm not ever allowed to drink again.

I know this sounds awful, and when she's saying it I start feeling like I must be an awful parent..

I do so much for her and she already controls so much of family life. I don't like her feeling she can control what I do when it doesn't even affect her.

She is adamant I should not get any more tattoos when I was thinking about one recently. I feel like I'm the rebellious child and she's the strict parent.

It's very hard to argue with her because of course she is right in a way, alcohol, smoking, tattoos, none of these things are good for us, but at the same time I would like her to be tolerant of people's rights to make their own choices and see that we are not good or bad people but unique and complex combinations. I have tried comparing it to her choosing to eat sweets sometimes which is not great for you but fine in moderation but she can't make that link.

Am I being unreasonable to say I am allowed to drink alcohol?

Agree.
Another tool to control what adult women do.

No way would I tolerate any of my children telling me or any other adult how to behave.
Batshit behaviour.

Yes! Isn't it literally the backstory of Aunt Lydia from Handmaid's Tale?

@SomethingInnocuousForNow

isnt it just? In this instance it just feels like a thinly veiled attempt to control and subjugate a woman and push her into the role of martyrdom, which is where women have languished for years in order to sustain the patriarchy

Alcohol and tattoos don't really fall into the same category! OP your dd needs to learn more nuance, autistic though she is. Tatoos aren't bad but some people really hate them. That's their opinion. Alcohol can be bad if someone drinks too much but isn't in small amounts (some might disagree but that's generally how society sees it). People are allowed to make choices. All these things are legal so that's why people have the choice, and the choice is up to them etc etc.

You need to gently challenge her assumptions and also, gently, make it clear that you will continue to make choices for yourself. She doesn't need tp make the same choices when she grows up but she needs to respect yours and, come to that, everyone else's. I expect you'll need to be a broken record for a while, but stick to your guns.

Any discussion/ mention of women drinking on MN always desolves into talk of out of control drinking.
Completely imbalanced and hysterical.

Utterly batshit and in no way reflects my life or the lives of my wide circle of family and friends of 60+ years.

Large swathes of the population enjoy alcohol on an adhoc basis.

The idea that a safe guarding lead would advocate a childs opinion should be sought or be considered when an adult woman would like a perfectly legal glass of wine, is further proof that MN is a parallel universe.

This has become such a misogynistic site, full of incel, Andrew Tate like opinions on how to subjugate women at every opportunity, whilst finding every excuse under the sun to excuse the most vile toxic male behaviour.

A new low...we should seek our childrens approval before we have any alcohol.🙄

Wait now, we will soon have children dictating how, when and what we eat.....because women can't possibly be trusted with that that either.

No wonder so many children have anxiety, involved in decisions that have nothing to do with them.

Batshit.

This is utterly ridiculous.

THIS! SO TRUE! 🙌

So well put, thank you for articulating this.

I feel it's bleeding out of the online world into real life as well. I know many families who have been extensively controlled by professionals, particularly under the guise of safeguarding. One woman I know had to release her medical records to Social Care (so there were some pretty big concerns with the family) and her social worker read out in a room full of her family (who didn't know) 'I can see you had an abortion in 2021'. It literally wasn't relevant in any way to the concerns raised - in fact it was probably a protective factor - but the professional chose to humiliate and subjugate her in that moment.

I don't think OP has come back to the thread for a while. Possibly because some posters have suggested she is probably a lying alcoholic, or that she should modify her perfectly legal choices, or even that she is a potential safeguarding risk to her child. Shameful.

Interesting how the 'Safeguarding Lead' had nothing to say about the 9 year old refusing to do her chores, until she gets the control over her mother she so desperately wants.

I'm sure they'd have something to say if the child refused to go to school instead.

I think she's way, way, way out of her lane.

A 9 year old is simply not competent to set behavioural boundaries for an adult about what they choose to eat and drink or do to their body. She's being very manipulative refusing to do chores until her mom behaves as she wants. That's being controlling.

Where is the 9 year old getting these extremist health views from? It's not just alcohol and tobacco, it's tattoos and piercings and anything the 9 year old perceives as "bad".

Growling at her mom's friends is going to turn into controlling her mom's friendships.

I suspect that poster is very new to her role and a bit wet behind the ears. No way would an experienced safeguarding lead have that reaction to a parent drinking in moderation, given some of the cases they’re involved with.

I have to admit that as someone who is a devout Muslim my first honest thought was well "DD is correct". In our family we don't drink, smoke or have tattoos.

But I know that OP is not someone who doesn't drink religiously.

If my child told me to stop eating meat because it was immoral I'd just ignore them and continue to eat. I wouldn't let my DC dictate my life to me

The issue here is your daughter being unable to accept that others do things she doesn't like or sees as dangerous. Yes she is autistic and it is difficult but you really do need to help her understand that she can't control others and that growling at people is not acceptable. If she likes a certain film/popstar/song tell her you don't like it but you understand she does. If she likes a certain but but you don't, tell her it's fine she likes it but it makes you feel ill but you are ok cooking it for her.. You have to do this constantly because in a few short years she will be an adult and will have to learn to be a bit more tolerant.
Go to the supermarket without her so there are no rows but tell her as you are an adult you will have one glass of wine, have a tattoo and have people over who vape and she is free to leave the room but she is not free to be rude in any way shape or form. She needs to learn this life lesson and needs to learn it soon.

That seems a lot of alcohol for weekdays.

It's really not.

@Cheffymcchef

it’s not, hun.

what do you deem an acceptable amount?

You need to teach her how the world works and how to interact in society. In this case that means consequences for any rude behaviour towards you/ your friends/ other people and that different people think different things.

Personally from the point of view of a parent of SEN children I think you need to break everything down into different conversations and not scramble everything in together.

ASD is diverse and each person reacts and responds to things in different ways, only you know how best to raise discussions with your child. But discussions need to be had.

Examples:

Drinking, Smoking & Vaping can be seen as a “bad” habit that does not mean a “bad” person.

Adults can make decisions on their bodies and get tattoos if they like, you have tattoos, because it means and/or symbolises XYZ and you are not a bad person.

Discuss the age requirements for different piercings and why those age requirements are in place.

Highlight favourite TV stars, singers etc with piercings, tattoos.

Educate your DD on people and personal choices.

People with ASD become fixated on certain things, rules, behaviours. That’s ok. But it’s not ok when the fixation is based on inaccurate information.

You also need to be mindful about lying and breaking promises. Making promises you can’t and won’t keep can be harmful.

My DD would become hysterical in the car, it wasn’t regularly so it was difficult to understand the trigger and she wouldn’t say why. It transpired, after seeing a Police car whilst I was drinking some water, she thought I was going to go to prison for drink driving. The poor soul, didn’t realise, it meant alcohol. 🤦‍♀️

9 year olds don’t get to dictate to adults. 🤷‍♀️

…it is their right to “slosh back” (lol) as much booze as they like though.

she is a child and needs to be treated as such yes give her reason but ultimately she needs to learn she can’t always get her way by pandering to this you going to make her adult life harder than it already is

i say this as someone who grew up with an alcoholic parent I used dread seeing them drink and I could list countless memories of seeing them drunk.

Thank you all. Lots of food for thought and varied opinions as always!

No drip feeding here, I was honest about my intake.

Just to be sure I took a drink aware quiz which says I'm not at risk or drinking too much!

I've spoken to her about moderation and apologised for making a promise I didn't keep. But I've let her know I will continue to have the odd glass. I've shown her the recommendations for units on the NHS and said she's welcome to remind me if she thinks I'm going over that, and I will take that into account. But she cannot insist that I stop altogether.

I don't know how it'll go when I next have a drink but I'm hopeful it'll sink in eventually!

As for the tattoos, piercings and vaping, they'll be separate, ongoing conversations. She's not one to generalise from one situation to the next and the nuances of every situation has to be explicitly explained and taught. So I have a tendency to overthink and check I'm doing it right!

This all sounds quite positive.

Are you going to put sanctions in place for when she refuses to do her chores?

I think that would be positive too.

Of course her voice is important, but she isn’t in charge.

This is facilitating nonsense and I’d be worried if you were in safeguarding meetings and calling any shots.

Not sure if you’ve made a mistake in telling her she can remind you if she thinks you’re drinking too much…time will tell, but I worry she will still think she is in control. But overall sounds like a good conversation.