To think asking people if they have grandchildren is like asking if they are pregnant - just don't!

[Liesmorelies]

I was talking to a colleague last week and she suddenly asked if I had grandchildren. I think she already knew I had children but not their ages - I don't know her well and we weren't discussing our children at the time.

It really took me aback and, I admit, offended me a bit. I'm 49 and have been told a few times I look younger. Not because I'm so attractive (I'm not!) but my skin is pretty good and no grey hair and, while I'm quite insecure about my looks, looking older than I am is not among them. Or wasn't. It is now.

I know you can have gc at 49 but it's quite unusual and no one where I work who is the same age as me has gc- all have dc around the same age as mine (late teens).

If someone was clearly in their 40s/50s but I wasn't sure of their age I just wouldn't ask it unless I knew for a fact they had adult dc, just like I wouldn't ask if someone was pregnant just because their figure suggested they might be!

It also makes me worry that she was being a bit snide, which is also an upsetting thought.

Most of my uni contemporaries aimed to have their children in their 20s.

In Scotland, there's now a bigger window for NHS IVF so it might be that today's 20 yr olds are a bit more laid back about when they start families.

In my case, I had the experience of an NHS Fife gynaecologist offering me IVF (immediately after giving me a laparoscopy, when I was still a bit woozy) and then coming back very quickly thereafter to apologise and withdraw the offer - he'd not checked my date of birth and I'd passed the cut-off: "I wouldn't advise going privately. You have just as much chance as any women your age of having a child."

Nowadays, I'd have been offered one round of IVF, I believe.

Some women are fortunate enough to be able to have their first child when they're older, but the safest bet is to start when you're younger if you possibly can.

I think there are a lot of mumsnetters who are newly middle class and therefore feel the need to make these very strident statements to reassure themselves they have "made it". Hence all the endless threads about what is /is not MC etc. People who have been MC for generations tend to be far less obsessed by these things.

@MiracleCures I think it's you who comes across as class-obsessed to be honest. What if someone did come from a 'non-mc' background and her parents were ambitious for her and stressed the importance of education, careers, not seeing getting 'a man' and having babies as the pinnacle of achievement, not because they were horrible snobs, but because they felt that expectations of them had been too low in their particular families and they wanted different things for their dc. And then their dc grow up and pass on similar values to their own dc and somehow they have picked up their parents' view that having children early is a sign of having low aspirations. But it doesn't make them snobs or second-rate middle-class people just because they're not secure enough in being middle-class to have kids early. That's just odd thinking.

I'm pretty sure most people don't think explicitly about their social class when deciding when to start a family and looking down on people because they're 'new middle-class' and attributing their opinions to that when you can't possibly know it's the case is truly pathetic. If someone is well-to-do enough to know that no matter when they have kids they'll probably have a good future ahead of them anyway then good for them. There's no need to look down on people who know that in their family there was a correlation between early parenthood and poor economic outcomes and they therefore want to avoid that themselves.

Why does it have to be a female child? Are the children of her sons not counted as grandchildren.?

So person 1 has a son st 24. Son at 25 is married to a woman of 30. They have a child. Person 1 a grandmother at 49

Maybe it's the parents that are living with their adult children. It's quite common in many Asian families that a newly married woman goes to live with her inlaws

Oh dear did I touch a nerve?

I don't look down on anyone. I take my hat off to people who had a much harder path to climb to get degrees and career success. Indeed I spend a chunk of my free time volunteering as a trustee for a charity that helps fund training and other opportunities for people who have had a difficult start on life.

But there were a whole host of assumptions made about younger parents and grandparents and who they are and it's perfectly reasonable for some of us to come out and counter those stereotypes.

Your posts come across so badly, I'm not sure you realise how patently bizarre you are?

You keep referencing the modern 2025 age without thinking that women can choose to have DC whenever they like and also, in the modern age, unplanned DC can still occur but you seem to think having a DC under the age of 30 equals an underclass.

It doesn't.

If she has infant school age children in her early 30's, she would have been late 20's when she had them. Her children will be in their mid/late 20's by the time she's 49, so she may well expect to be a grandmother at your age and see that as the norm.

Is that what happens when you have kids early? You lose any patience and social etiquettes, and think it’s ok calling people who have different opinion or feel differently to you butt hurt and haggard? I hope that’s not how you talk to your children or grandchildren at least.

If she is early 30s and have an infant and a nursery going kids. She had a child in late 20s. Say 28, by the time she will be 49, her older child will be 21 and given she is a professional woman, it’s more likely her children will be in university, studying / training than having already had kids. There are plenty of people who speak without thinking much about how other person may take it and this colleague of op sounds like one.

Even if it was a norm for her, why wouldn’t she ask op first about her kids rather than her grandkids out of the blue?

You should have responded by saying will you be a granny by age 49 in a joking manner?

Even if she had an older by 27, that kid would be 22 when she is 49. Of course there are exceptions, but usually women have children later than their mother because we are all impacted by society to some degree. And overall women are having children later than previous generations.

She didn’t ask anything about your children ( saying this because you say your children are 16 and 18, and she thinks you are a grandmother) and went on asking about grandchildren. Doesn’t seem like she even knows if children are make or female. For me that tells me this woman was not making a normal conversations.

A lot of posters are ignoring that.

I would be a bit offended if someone asked me this at 49, even though it’s possible I could be a grandmother at that age!

OP, she was simply making conversation. And, many women start conversation talking about kids and grand kids. And she was coming from her norm, not yours, which is why it took you aback. It's not about you looking old. But this post has certainly touched a nerve with those who have kids in their twenties. They seem to have big defensive chips on their shoulders.

Exactly this. Now that is a fact. It's not a 'fact' or 'statistically far more likely' that there are more first time mothers in their mid 40s, than grandparents age 49!

You haven't touched a nerve, @MiracleCures . I don't care what class I am and am not stung to think you might consider me 'new-m/c,' but I do think it's a bit disingenuous to state that having children in ones 20s happens in all walks of life and for the majority of people a likely outcome would be multiple degrees, published books and contributions to scientific journals, followed by skiing and other amazing travel opportunities in the later years.

For the majority of people becoming parents early on did and does lead to reduced opportunities and often economic hardship. Not always, so anecdotes to the contrary are not relevant. But my point is, many people in the later half of the 20th century and beyond encouraged their daughters especially to put off having children until later on, and many daughters took that on board and in fact, more and more are deciding against having children all together. To make out this is due to snobbery and to point to examples of people from entirely different socio-economic groups to prove this is just silly.

But it's great that you do charity work for those less fortunate. I'm sure it's much appreciated by those who benefit.

So did you end up going to uni, getting a degree and go on to have a successful professional job from someone who was from a working class back round?

I don't like being asked (I'm 70 so no offence about age) because almost every time, the person doesn't accept just no as an answer, they want to know why - and expect me to defend my children's life choices in some way. Then they say they are sorry for me when it's not needed. As a parent, what I want is the happiness of my children. If they don't want children of their own, that's fine, but I don't see why I should explain or defend this to any Tom, Dick or Harry. I guess the actual question - OK - but the follow ups are just rude.

What the hell are you thinking are 'professional' jobs that are difficult to achieve from a working class background?

Are you from the past?

What are professional jobs for a start?

Do professional jobs require a degree?

And why are they a) not working class? And b) difficult for people from your view of working class to achieve?

@Catinthereallysmallhat My background is a bit weird - my mum's family was working-class with her parents in the merchant navy and a cleaner. My dad's family were wealthy farmers on his dm's side and a hospital manager on his df's side, so very different from dm's. But neither of my parents went to university, though df ended up in a management role and a lot of his colleagues in comparable roles were younger with degrees, while he'd worked his way up. My dm was a medical secretary. Both encouraged me to value education and I did get a degree and post-grad qualification and am in a profession.

But I really didn't see the question as class-related. Colleague will know I must have a degree from the role I do. Her role doesn't require one but I don't know whether she has one. I was more bothered about the implication, as I saw it, that I look considerably older than I am. I maintain it's not a standard question to ask someone unless you know for a fact how old they and their children are, and even then, probably best not to, as others have said.

You have to work solidly from university to the age of 43 without even so much as glancing at a baby if you wish to reach the lofty ranks of a Mumsnet professional apparently
While also ensuring you spend plenty of time travelling and exploring personal growth in a way that weirdly narrows your world view

Touched a nerve?

If you have read the entire thread you will see that there are classist comments stating that women who have kids young (in their 20s) are from “rough areas” and couldn’t possibly have went onto uni and get a professional job. Which we know, is not the case. Many MC and upper class don’t have jobs or a degree.

OP stated she didn’t know anyone who was a grandmother at 49/50, her age. More comments about class are posted…

Speculation about ops background then followed, so yes I think it is relevant for Op to give her background if she wishes to add more context.

That’s nuts. I’m 52 and would be offended if someone asked if I had a grandchild! It would imply that I looked old, because in my middle class circle, people don’t become grandparents at this age.

I’m still pathetically grateful for the ‘could you be pregnant?’ type questions when I give blood 😂

I’m still pathetically grateful for the ‘could you be pregnant?’ type questions when I give blood

Seriously? My eyes roll out of my head when they ask me and I’m considerably older than you. My response is laughter and pointing out that the age of miracles is past. They’re not asking you because they think it’s a possibility, they’re asking you because you’re female.

My friend is 49 and has one grandchild and one almost here.

I don't have grandchildren but two of my children are old enough to have had children of their own by now if they'd chosen to and the third is old enough to have children but would be a young mum (19).

I definitely consider myself at 49 to be a grandparent age.

So funny how the old mums are banging on about degrees like that’s the absolute gold standard. Having a degree these days means fuck all because almost everyone has one! I have 2 degrees and a lot of post grad qualifications but I will not be encouraging my children to do the same. A vocational qualification or apprenticeship would be much more beneficial these days.