on the tube recently people were giving up seats for a mother and a grandfather who in turn let the children sit

[EleanorReally]

surely the kids could have stood, or sat on their laps

i think this is a common scenario now but didnt used to be

In my experience we’ve routinely been offered seats when travelling in London over the last 10 years until a a couple of years ago when children were 6 and 8 - we still occasionally get offers now they are 8 and 10 though I will generally now decline the offer whereas I would previously have accepted. If a seat becomes free I sometimes find people standing will offer it up to the children rather than sit themselves and I am still fine with them accepting those offers.

Even at 8 and 10 on a crowded tube they are still at risk of being jostled and shoved, swept up in a surge of people getting off at the same time, falling into someone’s lap etc.

I would also let my children sit down because I would rather they be comfortable and safe, as a parent I would never prioritise my comfort over theirs so yes I'd stand and they'd be sitting, I don't understand what the issue is with that

“would you like a seat” surely implies you. Whereas “would he/she” or “would either of you like” implies that the giver doesn’t care who takes it 🤷🏻‍♀️.

If that’s the case it is a remarkable coincidence that the only times that anyone ever says to me “would you like a seat?” Is when I am travelling with my DC. Maybe they think parenting is so draining that I need to sit down? Or maybe they mean “please use this seat for uour family in any configuration you feel most appropriate for your needs” and “would you like a seat?” is simply a commonly understood shorthand, who can say?

We will have to agree to differ .
I should have written “What a shame good manners aren’t taught by a lot of parents anymore.”

I think people just call BS on the notion that an 11 year old is lesser than a perfectly able bodied 41 year old. And rightly so. If the 11 year old is sitting first there’s no logical reason they should stand for another able person, other than entitlement from the adult.

I would never dream of expecting someone’s child to stand up for me. It’s such a weird attitude.

How can you possibly think a single incident in a city of millions constitutes a change in attitudes. Some adults will want their kids/kids in their care sitting on a busy train. I think society will survive.

In the example of healthy 11yo and healthy 41yo, are you actually suggesting that the 11yo should get up for the 41yo? Why on earth would the 41 year old take priority, that's ridiculous!?

At 7 DS will already stand without prompting to give a seat to elderly or disabled, or twice at least to toddlers; he's polite, charming and unselfish. I won't be teaching him to stand up for adults who are perfectly able to stand though, there is a line because he needs to also learn that he has rights and value too.

I've been mulling it over and am very confused by these "manners" rules. Are they allowed to sit down when they magically turn 18? What if they look younger, does that mean they have to stand until 25? Or is it just anyone younger than you? How do you know if someone is 40 or 42 to know if your 41 year old self should leap up or turf them off their chair?

Why is it good manners for a child to stand for an able bodied adult? How about the good manners for someone who is also perfectly able to stand to not expect a child give up their seat? Where are YOUR manners? Anything else you think a child should give you?

That’s awful, your poor mum. If your mum doesn’t feel able to ask for a seat, I would suggest she be accompanied on train journeys in future.

DFIL actually got into an argument with somebody about exactly this! He is in his 80s but looks good for his age, though he does use a walking stick.

He was sitting in the priority seat, when a middle-aged woman (this is relevant) sitting next to him tapped him on the shoulder and said “I think it’s disgusting that you haven’t offered your seat to my husband. He’s 72!”

FIL replied “I’m 81!”

She snapped “well he has a pacemaker!”

FIL opened his shirt collar to show off a fresh scar, and said “I’ve just had a heart bypass! You’re sitting down, why don’t you give him your seat?”

Because her husband was a gentleman who would never allow a lady to stand, apparently. FIL pointed out that was his choice to stand up then, and went back to his book.

I love your Fil. ❤️

Respect for elders. And yes, I understand respect is earned blah blah, but I’m not sure completely throwing out respect for elders has overall done our society a shedload of good. (Please don’t bother anyone coming along with endless scenarios of abusive adults etc.)

This isn’t about adults demanding that children get up for them. It’s about teaching children to pay attention to the world around them (something that needs to happen in these days of everyone being head down glued to their phone, AirPods in) and offering their seat where they can - the likelihood is that half if not most of the time thanks would be given for the offer but be politely declined. The kid who offered could feel good about themselves for getting the acknowledgement and thanks for the offer, and if it was accepted by someone who was grateful for the seat, they could feel good for helping someone out.

So another adult has to pay for a seat and presumably take a day off work etc because parents have for 30 odd years brought up their children to be selfish fuckers.

I agree OP...I think there is a change of attitude from even 20 years ago. My DC always gave up their seats for older people and when they were little I had them on my lap.
Older children of say 5-6 used to be wedged between the parent's legs.

I have in the past (when also sanding myself) asked a younger person to give an older person their seat.

In the past kids would have had cheap bus tickets. It costs exactly the same for me or my child so she is as entitled to a seat as anyone else (actually she does have issues so does need to sit)

I think it’s all about the age of the kids - if they are young (eg under 7) I would offer my seat to them (harder for them to stand safely) even when I was pregnant. But I wouldn’t do that for pre teens for example.

It’s got nothing to do with parents for the last 30 years. It’s incredibly unlikely that the train was full of people in their teens and 20s. The vast majority of people in their 40s or 50s would have been just as capable and could have offered the 81 year old their seat. Statistically around 95% if the train would have been younger.
It’s got nothing to do with parents or kids in the last 30 years.

Someone said further up the thread that they’d make their child stand up for someone who needs the seat. Fair enough if it’s someone who genuinely needs it and not a ‘fit 41 year old’, but I’m interested if the parent remains seated in this scenario. Otherwise it’s a bit ‘do as I say, not as I do, no?’.

I'm another who thinks kids safety is far more important than some perceived lesson in manners.
I gave my seat on a bus to a young child last week. She was tired crying wanted up but her DMum was standing struggling to hold DD and the grab rails.

@ButterButterBattle
Sorry about your Mum. Did she not have a reserved seat?
Most long distance trains have a reservation system that let's you reserve a seat. Is that part of the reason she wasn't able to get a seat others had them reserved?
Although some trains also have a non-reserved carriage.

I do think she should have asked the Train Manager if they could have found her a seat in another carriage.

I would have told my child to sit on my knee if I was sitting as well.

Perhaps we should scratch “respect your elders” and replace it with “consider the needs of others”.