on the tube recently people were giving up seats for a mother and a grandfather who in turn let the children sit

[EleanorReally]

surely the kids could have stood, or sat on their laps

i think this is a common scenario now but didnt used to be

Have you not? I’ve done it myself as a drunk student 🤣

If there is room to run about, seats are likely freely available. We are talking about during rush hour, where children at waist height can’t get to poles to hold on because there are other people holding onto the pole already, and they aren’t visible in the crowd so get pushed and squashed.

They are falling over because adults who weigh 3-4 times what they do are bumping into them as the train moves, not because an 8 year old can’t stand up steadily normally.

It’s not a new thing. I stood to let my small child sit down over 40 years ago because he was safer sitting down.

I think people get a bit confused because they remember standing as "a child", but don't realise they were 9, 10 or whenever the memory was from. A child, but not little. I'm a born Londoner and it has never ever been a thing to have 2, 3 and 4 year olds get up for healthy young adults on the tube, quite the opposite. There isn't any advantage for the child nor for any adults near them to have children slamming into people like heavy skittles. The signs for priority seating have included small child juggling as an option since they came out in 2008; that doesn't mean the adult MUST have the child put on their knee because it might not be suitable, it means offer the seat to that adult!

Frail elderly and disabled should sit first, then pregnant women, then offer to people with young kids, then priority is just whoever got the seat first. The age to stand is best judged by adults looking after the kids who understand their needs; 5-10 yo could go either way depending how bumpy the journey is, their experience travelling and any physical issues the child has.

They may well have, but I don't think this is right. I would much prefer my children seated than myself for safety reasons.

My view is that children should stand. Those too young to stand sit on the parent's knee. I taught my children to stand to allow adults to sit if there weren't enough seats on the tube. They actually liked this - it made them feel grown up and they liked being thanked by appreciative adults.

Children are often more able and more happy to stand than adults (being fidgety little devils). They are not usually encumbered with luggage etc.

I was once on a tube with an elderly friend (84 at the time - but is youthful looking and might be taken for late 60s). We were strap-hanging for ages, and a family of about 5 children with parents and a pushchair got on the train. It was rammed, but when 2 seats became available right behind me and my friend, we sat down, only to hear a barrage of disapproving tutting from the father of the family who said 'Well, that's nice - taking seats from little children!'

We hadn't taken the seats from his blessed children - we'd just lowered ourselves into seats behind us in a very crowded tube. His kids could a) stand, b) sit on his and his partner's knees or c) remain in the pushchair. Stupid man.

Yes it’s weird. I was on the tube yesterday and a couple had their son next to them taking a seat. He was about 5 or 6. I was standing, an older woman. I thought them very rude not to offer me the seat and put the kid on her lap. Or her husband to have kid on his lap. Selfish. There were also three kids of about 18 happily lolling in their seats while I stood on the hot crowded train. Honestly, I pity them. Being callously unaware of others isn’t a feel good way to live.

We are creating entitled, over-protected little monsters. Or - it's too late, and we've already created them!

I think it appears to be the older people thinking that just BECAUSE they're older than kids should give them their seat who are acting like "entitled monsters" if someone got on a train who obviously needed a seat id have offered mine if I had one. I would NOT expect a small child to risk their safety (because it IS a risk when they can't reach to hold on, and people don't see them so they get squashed or a rucksack to the face!) when there are seats taken up by able-bodied adults who could offer theirs.
And if you don't actually need it, you just want it for "respect" th n you can do one!

I think the seniors should get first seating along with people who use mobility aids.

And able bodied, get the fuck out of the wheelchair spots when someone in a chair needs it. It's not a parking spot for your strollers either.

But if the adult didn’t want the seat they should’ve declined it. Not taken it from someone who did want it, and then give it to someone that they preferred.

The person sitting didn’t offer their seat to a child, they offered it to an elderly gentleman, if the elderly man didn’t want to make use of it he shouldn’t have taken it.

OP’s not worked up about it, just noticing something that’s different. I think it’s becoming everyday behaviour now.

Decades ago, when I was a child but old enough to stand safely either holding on to mum or alone, kids routinely gave up their seat to older people because that’s just what you did. (Little children were expected to sit on laps.) Also to people who were disabled or pregnant or carrying a baby. No big deal. They needed a seat more than a healthy child with plenty of energy did.

I was surprised when people started giving up seats to children rather than people who visibly needed a seat. But like OP, I’m not getting worked up about it.

Unless it’s a baby or toddler where they cannot actually stand or will fall over, then no, I’m not giving my seat up for a child.

No - it's not as horrific as that.

If they're little or a bit frail they sit on their parent's knee. If they're robust upper-primary school children they stand, holding on to one of the vertical poles like the rest of us have to. I don't see how that would be beyone them.

Most children are not made of Dresden china - and I'm not talking about children with disabilities or injuries.

If they're little or a bit frail they sit on their parent's knee.

In which case the seat’s still taken. I stood to allow my child to sit down - just like the adults in OP’s scenario. It’s no different. 🤷‍♀️

And if you don't actually need it, you just want it for "respect" th n you can do one!

Blimey - aggressive or what?

What's wrong with respect and consideration for others? Children are by their nature (not their fault) often self-centred and don't or can't look beyond themselves. Adults need to teach them to do that, and to understand that some older or disabled people (or pregnant women) are not as able to stand as an 8-year-old fizzing with youthful energy. What the heck is wrong with this I cannot fathom.

Yes - they do need to be taught this. I blame the adults and not the children if they haven't been. But as I said upthread, children actually enjoy feeling they've helped someone - my son thought it was a very grown-up thing to do and it increased his self-esteem no end.

So don't knock it!

Problem is that we've got someone just a few posts above you criticising a child of "5 or 6" sitting. I recall people commenting on DS and "aren't you in school?" when he was only 3. So, quite apart from the fact that a 6 year old is still young enough to not necessarily be safe, the child being glared at by some irate passenger might be only 3 or 4. Great to make these confident statements about what "robust upper primary children" can do, but some people are then applying that to little tiny ones.

In my view we really do need to save the criticism for those in their teens, 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s who should be standing for someone who needs it, not quibbling over whether a "looks 6" kid will be safe trying to hang onto a bar on a bumpy bus journey or not.

When I’m travelling with my DC it’s quite common for people to asked me “would you like a seat?”, I have never assumed they are offering me a seat and not the DC. How do you determine the difference?

Yes.
What a shame good manners aren’t taught by parents anymore ☹️

See I don't actually think that was aggressive. And I dont think that children are "lesser" so frankly I don't see why they should offer you their seat just because you are an adult?
My kids (who are 10 now so perfectly able to stand) would offer their seat to someone who needed it. Like someone with say, a stick, or a very elderly person or an obviously pregnant woman or even (shock horror!) a very small child. I would absolutely NOT expect or indeed encourage them to stand up for someone with no obvious particular need just because they're an adult. Why should they? What exactly is that teaching them? That they are worth less? They're not. They have empathy and would offer - just as an adult would - to someone who obviously needed it.

This is ridiculous. Of course most parents teach their kids good manners. It's just the idea of what that constitutes has clearly changed in the last 50 years or so!

I’d certainly expect my DC to stand for anyone who was clearly in need of a set (elderly, pregnant, carrying a younger child etc). But I wouldn’t expect them to stand for a fit 40 year old. Obviously there’s a hierarchy of need here?

Yes this has changed. Even 20 years ago toddlers and small children sat on their parents' lap, older kids stood. It wouldn't cross my mind to offer my seat to a child and when mine were small I wouldn't have expected anyone to give up theirs.

Oh indeed my children would generally much prefer to stand up and wobble about and swing off poles. They would also prefer not to swear seatbelts, play with matches and eat ice cream for every meal. As an adult I recognise that what they want and what is best for them aren’t necessarily the same thing.

And I’ve read the T&Cs on my children’s free travel cards and nowhere does it say “this ticket is issued for standing only”

I'd give my seat to a child. I'd rather risk falling or bumping into someone myself than risk a child doing it.

But aren't we talking about adults who are standing too, so whose lap would they sit on, when you say small children sat on laps? A small child can't sit on your lap if no one has given up a seat for you. Ok, in the original op the mum or grandad could sit down in the offered seat and the child sit on their lap, but in most cases (and definitely if I had a baby bump but feeling healthy) I'd prefer to stand then have my child on my lap for a long time, so I'd let them have the seat. It's not taking up any more seats than if I sat and the child sat on my lap, so what difference does it make to anyone else.