on the tube recently people were giving up seats for a mother and a grandfather who in turn let the children sit

[EleanorReally]

surely the kids could have stood, or sat on their laps

i think this is a common scenario now but didnt used to be

I took grandchild on tube this week and it was absolutely rammed .
A guy gave up his seat so grandchild could sit down. I was so grateful. It was safer to avoid injury and to see where the child was particularly when the train got to stations and all the bustling involved by the other passengers.

Hmm. I'd give up my seat for a small child if he or she seemed to be at risk of falling, or for the child's parent so they could sit and have the child on their lap. Same goes for if a child can't reach the straps and isn't near a post, as I wouldn't want to see them fall.

Wouldn't give my seat up for a child old enough to stand safely and within reach of a post. Can't see why it's necessary.

But you obviously DO think it's wrong, or you wouldn't have posted, surely?

I have no problem giving up my seat for a young child for the reasons people have explained above. No problem.

But giving up a seat for a child doesn't mean that everyone else should move to accommodate their whole family (e.g. on train).

I've seen this happen - person offers a seat for a child accompanied by two adults, both of who then also insist to be seated!

This said, in return for my courtesy, I'd expect you to then control your child in terms of noise, e.g. headphones, no noisy gadgets etc.

no, if you read what i have written, it is focused on the changing attitudes

But it's not necessarily clear which of their party you are offering the seat to unless you have very explicitly stated it. In the example I have above, it was only something about her expression when dd sat down that made me retrospectively realise that she'd meant me when she smiled at me (holding dds hand so clearly in charge if her, so she'd have communicated with me either way I assume) and stood up. And also they may well assume that if you are happy to stand for them and in their opinion their child / grandchild needs to sit more, you would also be happy to stand for the child, as their need is greater. They don't know your anti child policy.

How old was the child?

What’s the reasoning for thinking children ought to give way to adults?

Of course anyone should be prepared to give up their seat to someone else less able to stand.

But all else being equal, why should a child give up their seat to someone else simply because they are older?

It seems to hark back to a rather antiquated set of social manners.

No, it's definitely a (relatively) new thing. I remember going to the US in the 90s and being really surprised that children were sitting while adults stood. My experience was that children lap sat until too big and then stood. I wouldn't have dreamt of allowing them their own seat while adults stood. Not commenting on safety or right or wrong here, just my experience of etiquette.

I would give my seat up for a child. As a regular commuter I see so many little kids fall over, far safer for them to be seated where possible. I'd personally be more offended about adults sitting while their children stood!

I always found that DD was at the perfect height to get knocked over or a backpack to the face/back of the head until she was about 12, when people (men, largely) would just plow through her instead. In addition to that, I was never a fan of having to struggle through the backpacks to try and reach the doors before they closed again, so we stood unless there was a seat - and normally, I'd stand in front or slightly to the side of her, blocking the way to avoid somebody (yes, a man) swinging his way and his bag onto the train and into the seat, not noticing there was a girl there.

15-20 years ago kids were still expected to stand for adults. I don't know when it changed but kids were definitely either out on laps or made to stand next to their parent for another adult.

FWIW I was on a crowded tube yesterday with my 10yo and I ushered him into a seat as soon as one became available as he is still very small and had nothing he could hold onto other than me. It seemed quite clear to me that his need for a seat was greater than any adult in that carriage, notwithstanding hidden disabilities.

If you could put “in my day” in front of a statement, as in “in my day, adults never gave their seat up for children”, then usually it is just you becoming old and crotchety. It’s new to you but think back and you will remember old people making similar statements when you were younger.

It depends how old the children were. It's hard for small children to stand on the tube. I am a grandmother and would also much prefer for a young child to sit than me.

I do agree OP that this is a newer attitude.

I am London born and bred so I’ve been using the underground for almost 50 years. There is absolutely no way as a child I would have sat while there were adults standing up. It was considered rude. More than that, as children we used to think it was great fun to stand, we called it surfing the tube, being swayed around and keeping our balance. It probably did us good for our development! No one ever went flying. But we were also probably more fit and able as we didn’t spend our childhood sitting down in front of screens, we were generally more active.

In general, the people who need a seat should have one, and yes that will include some children and adults who appear able but are actually less so.

My frustration comes when a child is lifted out of a pushchair or pram and given a seat, or when an adult and child are sitting next to each other taking two seats when the child could sit on the adults lap and allow someone else to sit, or when a child is given a seat and they are messing around jumping all over the place so they obviously don’t want/need to sit.

Kids have a lower centre of gravity. I am an able-bodied adult, but my balance is not equal to that of a ten year old. My back is more likely to feel it certainly than it did when I was younger even though I am fairly fit.

I think it depends on how old the grandfather and the children were but it wouldn’t bother me.

What did bother me was when I was travelling with a heavily pregnant colleague and there was a mother and 3 children aged approx 7-15 who rushed to grab the only available seats in an airport waiting area. I did ask them to give up one of the seats for my colleague and they did so without complaint.

I think pregnant women and the very elderly should always be given priority. After that, as an able-bodied 40-something, I’d be happy to give priority to a child.

It’s not safer for a child to sit than an elderly person who will get broken bones more easily, and that take longer to heal than a child will, or whom will bruise more easily etc.

It really isn’t hard for a 5 or 10 year old to stand on public transport. I can only assume those making this claim ferry their DC everywhere in a car.

I wasn't really talking about taking seats from elderly people I was talking about young children in general are safer sitting.

My experience of people in London is they are amazing on the tube at giving up their seats.

They see my disabled ds coming and flee the priority seats - makes me grateful and giggle as he’s in a wheelchair 😂 He says thanks but you can sit as I’ve brought my own seat!

I made this claim I have never driven so when I was taking my children out and about I was using public transport, and there is a big difference between a 5 year old and a 10 year old isn't there ?
Sounds like you don't have much experience of children on public transport.

I agree. It’s how I was brought up and how I brought my son up. It was considered good manners.

I will stand and let my kid sit. If the train stops abruptly they can pitch forward. He can’t stand still so bumps into people. And it can be harder to move down the carriage as he can’t always reach the overhead bars. He’s getting older now so I’d get him to stand up and offer his seat but previously it was definitely safer for him to sit.