DH reported at work

[CircleBaker]

I am stuck between ‘the world has gone mad’ and ‘why did you say that’ so I’d appreciate some MN wisdom!

DH has been reported to HR by a colleague due to a comment he made when she arrived at her desk on a recent morning. He said she looked particularly happy so he joked that she must have ‘got some’ the night before.

Now this colleague is someone DH has worked with for a while and always (in his view) got along with, so he was very surprised to hear of the report.

I can’t help but feel that as much as it wasn’t the smartest of comments, it was fairly inoffensive given they are friendly and it seems OTT to report?!

I’ve had a lot worse said and done to me over the years..again I work in a very man dominated industry and some of the stuff which I see and hear even now makes me 🤢

Would I report that? No…but I would do my best to disengage from the person it came from

I’ve just come to the conclusion men are twats and never held accountable for anything that they say or do, I’ve been some lovely female colleagues try and challenge it and have always ended up being bullied out of their roles

You don't have an answer then....

Cause and effect.

The answer is they aren’t the same. I don’t give a fuck about someone swearing on the internet because it’s not the same as sexual harassment in the workplace. One is illegal and the other isn’t which is a pretty major difference.

There is nothing in the OPs comment to say he snapped
and nothing to suggest his comment regarding her being highly strung was made to his colleague at work. This comment was made to OP.

He wasn’t defensive and aggressive to his colleague as you say in your two posts.
You are stretching the truth here to fit your narrative.

So you don't mind sexual remarks being made, so long as it's not in the workplace. You don't mind women being harassed and abused, so long as it's not in the workplace. You don't mind sexual remarks bring made by women, just not by men.

Double standards.

There is a world of difference between reading something uncomplimentary typed onto a computer and somebody in close physical proximity making inappropriate comments about assumed sexual behaviour.

Somebody saying my posts (because they don't know who I am) are absolute fucking bollocks is just words on a screen - a colleague taking the same approach is different precisely because it's in person. Most people code switch seamlessly between work, home, when speaking to parents, children, pets, in interview situations, shopping, in restaurants, the library, online and when you're in intimate situations, for example. I can call the cat a treacherous little shit when he's cosying up to DP after I've climbed the shed and through three rosebushes to rescue him from a big, scary mob of angry sparrows; the cat understands the indulgent pitch and tone of my voice. My line manager wouldn't appreciate being called it in front of others after I've produced three last minute reports for a meeting and he was congratulated by the boss for them, however.

At no point is it appropriate for a male to make statements about his opinions or imaginings regarding a woman's sexual behaviour or preferences. His assumptions and interest in her reproductive and sexual organs isn't for him to share with her or anybody else around. It's deeply unpleasant and can be threatening to have somebody who is in the same room as you, somebody who is vastly more likely to be taller than you and stronger than you, telling you what he thinks went on with you and your vagina last night. It's bad enough when it's a stranger on the street or in the pub, but at least you should be able to escape them or have them removed (without getting a punch in the face, hopefully, but it's not guaranteed) - but to be stuck with the same person all day, five to six days a week? Intolerable.

Insults in work, out of work and online are just that
Insults!
and we hear of many people being severely affected by such speak from all of them. However there is very little one can do when it’s online and I’m afraid people don’t see how badly it can affect people and I do think if people are so quick to insult online then it is probably within their very nature.

I agree they are very different and being face to face with abuse at that very moment is far worse
However we all know abuse online can lead to severe outcomes for the abused.
So on a thread like this Why?!
People can get their personal thoughts and point across without the hate remarks.

I wouldn't ever use the term 'wankstain' to describe anyone. However, that response was provoked by OP's account of what her husband has said and done to a female colleague. The colleague who was on the receiving end of a sexual comment directed at her for no other reason that she was looking cheerful (before the remark was made) did not provoke his comment in any way. He just came out with a sexually inappropriate comment to a fellow employee in the workplace.

You do know that there are laws against sexual harassment in the workplace but there are no laws against using bad language on an internet forum? There may be posting guidelines set by the forum staff and people who break them get their posts/threads deleted and in some cases are banned. If you think that referring to OP's DH as a 'wankstain' violates Mumsnet posting guidelines, report the comment.

I quite agree. Your responses have been sensible and balanced throughout.

People who sit behind a keyboard dishing out insults online can never truly see the effect their words are having. The other person might just laugh it off, or their words might be the final straw that tips someone over the edge. They always excuse their own behaviour whilst judging another for theirs. In work, out of work, it doesn't really matter - the person on the receiving end is the one affected.

I’m very glad to hear that this type of ‘banter’ is taken seriously in the workplace nowadays. His comment was offensive and hopefully, he won’t say anything like it again at work. It doesn’t matter that he was ‘joking’ and didn’t actually mean what he said. He made an inappropriate, unprofessional, sexist comment. It’s good that he’s been reported for it so that he can learn to change his behaviour.

Nothing will ever change unless more women are prepared to stand up for themselves in male dominated spaces.

Whether there are laws or not, why is it perfectly OK to use sexualised comments to someone online? Are we offended that a sexualised comment was made or not? That should apply to ALL sexualised comments, not just because it was in the workplace. If he'd said it in a pub, would he be less of a 'creepy old perv' or does it suddenly become OK because it wasn't at work?

Agree
The impact of harassment online can never be downgraded
This

From Amnesty International for those who don’t appreciate what online
abuse is
‘it is just as real as violence that happens in person’

Focusing upon it deflects and distracts away from the seriousness of what the OP's husband (and millions, of other men throughout history) has done to this woman, though. It's as though tens of thousands of years of cultural, legal, physical and sexual abuse of women and efforts to make it unacceptable means nothing compared to a woman saying rude words about a man online - they're being too strident, too personal, too graphic, not feminine enough. And the unspoken objection - they're directing it, worst of all, at a Man.

Yes, I have previously told somebody being creepy or offensive to fuck off. I've also stayed silent when I felt directly at risk of harm. I've also eventually gone to HR about a manager because months of harassment that I didn't feel I would be believed about was finally too much and I couldn't bear the idea of having to work late unsupervised with him - the defining moment was when he made a joke in public about me, as it was a directly sexual comment that he couldn't argue away.

Helen do you know ANYTHING about employment law? The evidence of your posting suggests not. So maybe knock it off with the whataboutery?

Whether there are laws or not, why is it perfectly OK to use sexualised comments to someone online? Are we offended that a sexualised comment was made or not? That should apply to ALL sexualised comments, not just because it was in the workplace. If he'd said it in a pub, would he be less of a 'creepy old perv' or does it suddenly become OK because it wasn't at work?

Sexual harassment and inappropriate sexual comments are not okay in any situation. The focus here is on the workplace becuase that is where this occurred. In the workplace there are policies and procedures in place to protect workers and it is right that the person in question utilised these.

The pub or out in public is different but still not acceptable. A man making a sexualised comment to me in the pub will be told to fuck off. The same comment at work would result in a complaint to HR.

Whilst I don't agree with your perception of the op being attacked I'll go with your example and answer your question.
Yes I think that being robustly told repeatedly that your wrong, that your minimizing your husbands sexual harassment and are a massive part of the problem due to condoning the misogyny of her husband, whilst victim blaming the innocent women at work is both appropriate and completely different from a man sexually harassing a female colleague at work.
At work there is a different legal framework that governs people's behaviour than there is at home or online.
At home you can be as offensive and even racist as you like, there's eve a specific clause in hate crime legislation that allows for it. Online there's yet another framework that governs what we can say or post, there are also some sites like MN that do have even tighter restrictions than the minimum that the law requires and will delete posts that break their guidelines and/or ban posters who continuously or egregiously break them. At work we have some of the strictest rules around social interactions and what can and can't be said and it's all set out in a handy simple legal framework.
So to put it bluntly at home you can be as much of a racist, sexist twat as you like (so long as it can't be hurd outside of your home), online you can be a horrid nasty areshole (so long as you don't commit a crime or breach talk guidelines) and at work you can't be an arsehole or sexually harass your colleagues or customers (well not if you want to keep your job).
As for advice what advice can anyone give the op about her husband being a misogynistic sexually harassing twat at work, who's hopefully now facing the consequences of his behaviour, when she can't accept that he is solely to blame for his current predicament and his victim has done nothing wrong, other than pointing out the facts?

But it's the way she approached it.
If she had said, 'my husband was a right d**k at work and I have told him so, what can we do now to try to make this right, i feel sorry this lady he works with, his behaviour is not ok'.

But she has tried to excuse it and minimise it.
Like I tell my children, we all make mistakes but it's what we do next which makes the difference, whether we learn from it and try to make things right, or make excuses and cover things up. It sounds like he only told OP because there might be consequences and he got reported - like a child, he only fessed up when he had been found out.

Agree
However my comment related to the discussion on abuse , here, to OP and
your comment re ‘they are just words on a screen’ ….they are not just words!

The thread started out about the abuse of one victim

This thread has now created another

Just because you had a very low standard and self respect doesn't mean we all have. I'm a coward and I dealt with this in my workplace, but I wish I have reported it. A regret that will carry with me, but he had a sweetness of a wife and I felt sory for her. Everybody pittied her as all women were harrassed by him. It makes you feel in a certain way and that feeling never quite leaves you. By not reporting we all contributing to a society where is ok for man to sexualise women and creep on them, disguisung it as "banter". Your husband is a creep and you are supporting him. Trust me, he will be known as the creep of the office, if he is not already. People talk. I talked, alongside many others. I would be embarrassed to call him my husband. We need to change and stop being cowards (yes, including me) only this way we can eliminate this disgusting behaviour.

So because you prIde yourself on being ‘one of the boys’ you are happy for other women to be made to feel uncomfortable in their workplace by sleazy dickheads like your husband. Perhaps in the 70s she would have been able to give him a good slap, unfortunately that is also now not woke!! You are definitely part of the problem

You are being deliberately obtuse. As other posters have said, there is a huge difference between OP's DH's remark to a colleague in the workplace, where there are the employer's own guidelines and employment laws to prevent people being sexually harassed at work and using vulgar language on an anonymous internet forum.

Work needs to be a safe place for people which is why employees can complain about bullying, exclusion, racism, homophobia and sexual harassment in the workplace and be taken seriously.

If a customer is being sexually harassed in a pub, they can complain to the landlord who can bar the perpetrator from the premises, they can leave the pub, or report to the police. If a customer sexually harasses a member of staff, the guidance for dealing with for sexual harassment in the workplace would need to be followed.

Free speech, especially on here, has its limits and posts which include hate speech or which Mumsnet considers to be a personal attack will be removed if reported. However, Mumsnet is well known for not censoring swearing as long as it doesn't breach those guidelines.