Death in nursing home - is this normal - a bit shocked.

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

I'm posting here because I have no-one I can really contact at this time of night.

My MIL has been on palliative care for the last couple of weeks - end stage dementia and possible bowel cancer which wasn't investigated fully after long conversations with her GP. She stopped recognising anyone over 5 years ago. I saw her on Tuesday and it was heartbreaking.

I had a call just after midnight to say she had passed away, and basically the nurse who called immediately asked me to arrange for her to be removed immediately. I am two hours away and my father died in the middle of April, so I am in the middle of organising his funeral. I had mentioned at a meeting with tge funeral director on Tuesday afternoon that my MIL would likely be their next customer but hadn't formally engaged them in respect of her because from experience of several deathbeds one can never be sure how long these things will take and it felt disrespectful. To be frank I'm struggling emotionally with losing my Dad and my MIL became my sole responsibility when my DP died three years ago.

I'm posting because I'm so taken aback by the almost indecent haste of all this. The nurse said she had passed literally ten minutes before they called me.

Nobody explained to me any sort of procedure when I was there on Tuesday. I was asked if anything was in place and said I would make arrangements, but nobody said that if she passed in the night I would be expected to organise everything then and there. They were most insistent that they couldn't keep her till morning even.

Fortunately the funeral directors have a 24 hour line so the nursing home contacted them, but because they are out if area it's all being done through another firm in the interim until all paperwork is completed.

I don't want to over react if this is standard procedure and this is all my fault, so has anyone else had a similar experience? I was left feeling as though I've just done everything wrong, and I'm in bits to be honest. I can't contact anyone for support till the morning, so if anyone can talk me down I'd be really grateful.

Definitely not the case with my mum. We were with her in her care home room when she died, it was the matron who confirmed the end as her breathing was so quiet we found it hard to tell. We were then left as long as we wanted to say our goodbyes to mum and spent an hour or so with her. The care home staff remained outside the room waiting for us to be ready to leave.

We were taken to the office on the way out and chatted for a while then asked a few questions like collecting her belongings, funeral details, ending the fees etc. The manager did say we could leave all that until later but as we knew the phone number of the funeral directors as we had used them previously, we sorted most things out there and then. The home contacted the funeral directors once we had left and then the funeral director spoke to my sister.

It was a bank holiday weekend so I don’t know if that made any difference but the home said we could take as long as we needed to sort out the room, saying that most people do it within a couple of weeks. As it was, my sister and I felt a bit in limbo over the rest of the weekend and decided to go and do it on the bank holiday Monday.

We only took a few items home with us, some clothes for mum to wear in the coffin and some ornaments. All her clothes were sorted into two piles, decent things we donated to the care home and tatty stuff they threw away for us. We also left them a very expensive, almost new, wheeled recliner which mum had used for the last few weeks. They were so grateful to have this, they had found it really helpful to around having to lift her too often, but it was too expensive for them to buy.

This was in 2021 when visiting restrictions had only just lifted so maybe they were more relaxed then but I really think it was a very caring home anyway, run as a not for profit group.

Her body was removed fairly quickly once the care home phoned them , that evening in fact, but we did not feel under pressure to sort it out. I guess in reality, they don’t want bodies lying in rooms close to the other residents for days but their consideration towards us was much appreciated.

Fairly normal to want the body to be moved reasonably quickly, in my experience, but it does sound like they didn't handle it particularly sensitively.
But if your funeral director wasn't able to come within a few hours, I don't think it's unusual for the home to call a local funeral director as an interim measure.

I was very lucky that I was with both my parents when they died (at different times). Dad died at home, late at night, and we called 111 who sent a doctor, then we called the funeral director who came in the middle of the night to take dad's body. This was all within about 4 hours.

My mum died last year in a private care home, with us by her side, having been there a couple of weeks for respite care. They were wonderful and kind, but it was the same thing, she was collected by the FD within a few hours. The entire staff gave a guard of honour to the front door as she was wheeled out under a velvet blanket. It was strangely beautiful and very respectful. The manager explained that all residents enter the home through the front door, so they leave through the front door. They did give us a few days to clear her room though.

The hospice I worked in in the 1990's had their own fridges to keep bodies in but perhaps the removal of funding from the government has changed this.

Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences and am so sorry for everyone who has had to navigate these things, and quite often with a lack of sensitivity from the care home etc. Sending much love, and thank you for the condolences.

Being able to reach out on here was so helpful, as pragmatically ringing elderly relatives such as her exH and his wife in the wee small hours is not a realistic or kind option. So, the last shred of my sanity was probably saved by you all.

I managed a few hours sleep and have been ringing round anyone who needs to know with both the funeral date for my Dad, and the news about MIL since I woke up at around 8. I feel like a complete harbinger of doom to be honest, and am in a weird sort of autopilot mode.

To clarify, I can understand to a degree some of the practical reasoning around wanting a deceased resident to be removed in a timely fashion, but that said the communication could have been done much more sensitively, and as I said before, if this had been communicated clearly to me on Tuesday I would have been better prepared.

The actual standard of care has been extremely good so I intend to write an email suggesting a review of best practise in the event of bereavement while praising their overall care.

Thank you for the support and caring advice for myself, once I have dealth with my Dad and MIL affairs I hope I can get a bit if respite and figure out what to do with the rest of my life, as it has been very preoccupied with my Dad over the last year.

I and my DP were both only children, and had 6 elderly parents between us. His father and SM don't live close, and his SM has children who are more involved than I am although I maintain close contact. My SM cut off all contact (other than occasional abusive phone calls to me and Dad) since the beginning of the year so technically and sadly she is none of my business after 40 years of being as pleasant a step-daughter as I can. She and Dad separated a year ago due to her violence towards him due to long term mental health issues deteriorating.

Honestly alot of what I'm dealing with is in the "you couldn't make this shit up" category, and sometimes when I come up against unnecessary insensitivity it makes things so much harder to deal with.

Sorry for the long ramble, thanks again for your support, advice and kindness, and solidarity to everyone else whose been through it ❤️

When I was in my early 20s, we got a call to say my great aunt had passed away (9am ish). She had advanced dementia and was in a care home. My grandmother was her NOK, and as she wss disabled and in her 80s herself, it woukd have taken her a few hours to get dressed, take her medication and get to tonthe home. My parents were both at work some distance away (teachers) so I went up to the home because I couldn't bear the thought of her being on her own.

I got there within about 45 mins of her death. They'd washed her face, brushed her hair and tidied her room and tucked her in her bed, with a rose placed in her hands. I sat in the room with her for about 90 mins while waited for the others to get there. In that time, the lovely staff brought me in cups of tea, told me funny stories about my aunt and basically transferred all the lovely care they'd given to her to me, even though I'm sure they were very busy with other things- it was a fairly 'posh' care home, but still very busy!

When my grandma turned up, they made her tea, and let her sit with her sister for an hour or so before very gently asking about funeral directors. My nan had already got it all sorted in her head but they didn't rush anything. It was well into the afternoin before they came, and they were so caring. They even bought us in sandwiches at lunchtime. When it came to taking her out, they ushered the other residents into tv room and played some gentle music, and draped a beautiful piece of velvet over her once the FD had put her onto the trolley. My grandma did have to arrange to empty the room family quickly, but they were so gentle and kind about it.

They made a sad occasion very dignified and peaceful and showed her the same respect and care in her death as they did in her life.

Yes, it was a luxury care home, and my aunt was very fortunate to have had the money to be able to go there. It's horrific that as always, money does seem to make everything much more pleasant and not like you're on a conveyor belt. We rush through life and it appears in death nothing changes!

Sending lots of love to you OP, it sounds like you've had a tough few years

So disrespectful - what if you wanted to go say goodbye to them in their final resting place? Bodies don't start decomposing the moment someone dies, they could absolutely wait until the morning. And you should be able to use your chosen funeral home (or not take the funeral home route at all if that's what you want), not have them choose for you based on who picked up the phone at that moment

This is what I done understand. Surely it's entirely your choice which funeral home you use. They can't pick for you.

My Dad died in hospital so was in the morgue for a day or so while we decided which funeral directors to use. I know if you have some expectation of imminent death one might make these decisions in advance but this seems so uncaring.

I'm so sorry for your losses @MistressoftheDarkSide. Autopilot is good as it gets us through. Try to eat and take a little care of yourself.

I’m sorry for your loss OP. It sounds like this could all have been communicated more sympathetically. However yes I would imagine bodies do need to be removed fairly quickly within a few hours. Nursing homes are usually very warm due to elderly people feeling the cold and with it being summer I wouldn’t imagine it would be a great idea to leave a body for even 24 hours. They obviously don’t have the facilities to store them. I doubt your MIL would have needed to be removed immediately but yes arrangements should start to be made fairly quickly to avoid delays.

Not quite the same but when my parent died in a hospice I was given half an hour to contact funeral directors to arrange for their removal.
A few years ago so no internet connection. I was given a list but staff were not allowed to advise me which was best. I do understand they needed the room for someone else so just warning people.

Because my DM died on a Sunday, when only a locum and not the usual GP could attend the care home, we had to wait for a coroner to approve her death certificate, which held everything up. Given that she was 97, had had advanced Alzheimer’s for several years, and had gone rapidly downhill over the previous 36 hours, it did seem a bit daft to query cause of death, but I suppose we have Dr Shipman (?) to thank for that.

I’m sorry for your losses, what a terrible time you’re going through m, the nursing home sounds a bit insensitive

What did the hospice plan to do after the half hour deadline if you hadn't been able to make arrangements?

I'm very sorry for your losses OP, please be as kind and caring to yourself as possible, you have been through an awful lot
I think the care home could easily have waited until morning to contact you, but sadly I'm not surprised, we were contacted immediately when my mother died by her care home to make arrangements although it was afternoon so not a problem in practical terms.

We were also charged for her lunch on the day she died (lunch served at 1pm, she died at 2pm) one of the carers was at the funeral and confided to me that Mum hadn't actually eaten any of her lunch (at 101 yrs old, having had a stroke and being an hour away from death I wasn't exactly surprised she didn't have much of an appetite). Its a small thing but seemed insensitive at the time.

When my Dad died, (at 9pm in the evening) we had a phone call at 9 am the next day from social services asking if they could come round that morning and collect the aids he'd been given (stuff like his walker, and the things for raising his armchair etc) I know they need it back but give us a bloody chance.
So from experience I know empathy and sensitivity are not always forthcoming in these situations.

Sometimes ‘ care’ is lost in the care business.
it always amazes me how when some one dies in a care home, often, not always, everyone just carries on, sometimes no one even tells the other residents that they died, especially if they went to hospital.
I've been in homes where they only want people removing at night, if people go to hospital they always move on to another home ( when actually they died) it like they want to avoid talking to the old people about death- I think it’s really disrespectful, but in their minds they do it to protect the clients.
I have also been in homes were the Lord’s Prayer or they have a moment of silence at teatime to remember the person, or were you can tell the who.e staff team have been crying as someone has passed away.

I've never heard anything like it. My OH died in a nursing home 5 years ago. He had been very unwell for several weeks and we knew that he would die soon. The nursing home had given me an empty room (without charge) so that I could get some sleep between sitting with him. About 10pm I had just started going to bed when a nurse knocked on the door and told me to come. He had just died. I sat with him for several hours, informed my DDs and they came a few hours later. No pressure at all was put on us to organise his removal - we were given as long as we wanted to be with him.

I went home about 8am, and the home let me know that the undertaker was coming near lunchtime and did I want to come back to see him leave. I declined, but my DDs went. The staff all lined up to bid him farewell as the coffin left the home.

I cannot believe that the nursing home is being so appalling to you. It is entirely unacceptable. Make sure you get this onto the comments section of their website.

My father was taken by ambulance from his nursing home to hospital and they phoned my mother two days later to ask if he was receiving end of life care.At the time he wasn't and they were charging us almost 2.2k per week which continued until he died 6 weeks later.
No sympathy card, no condolences.
I've never dealt with a filthier industry, they were despicable people.

Disgraceful. If they were worried about being accused by relatives of stealing a deceased resident’s property (I’m sure that happens) they could have packaged the food up separately.

Yes, thank you. I realise they're probably subjected to accusations of theft sometimes but this was so unnecessary - it was literally half eaten days old food - which as you say they could have at least put in a plastic bag.

Just a quick update.

I have had zero communication from the nursing home since the initial awkward phone call, and the email that was sent the same night to tell me my MIL had been taken to the local funeral home in the interim.

I was called by the ME yesterday to give me information about cause of death etc, and they kindly gave me information about registration that will be helpful as MIL died out of my area. It seems I can ask about "declaration" closer to me, so I'll be doing that on Monday.

I've been very preoccupied by planning my DFs funeral, which is requiring lots of inevitable cat herding, so one of the things I will do today is to email the nursing home to express my disappointment at their lack of subsequent communication.

I would have thought that once admin staff were working in the day time, I would have had some sort of call or email to discuss collection of belongings and any other matters, such as funding issues etc, and maybe something formal along the lines of "Sorry for your loss, we'll miss MIL" but it seems my expectations are unreasonable. They know the situation I'm in, so perhaps they are giving me breathing space, I don't know....

Am trying to remain "reasonable" because I know my emotions are heightened and it's all probably just the bureaucratic way of the world. But it saddens me.

Your expectations aren’t unreasonable. Sadly I think patients are just incomes for some care homes.

When my Mum was close to the end, nobody could find the TV remote. So I had to shout above a programme showing an operation.

This in a place that cost thousands per month.

You'd think someone would have thought to pull the plug out at the wallI. I imagine you were not in the right frame of mine to think clearly.

Thank You....even in my confused state I looked for a socket. There were none, it must have been some sort of centralised system. Evenually one of the very lowest down the pecking order came in and switched the damn thing off somehow. This after I had asked a nurse and receptionist. It made an awful time, even more awful.

You have had a lot of loss over the years and it must be very tough to do all of this without siblings. I am sorry for your losses and the dreadful violence your elderly DF suffered. Maybe concentrate on his funeral for now and pick up your MIL arrangements after when you can catch a breath. Choose where to use your finite time, energy and headspace at this time. Can you book some self care?

The care-home are lacking but at this time I would protect my peace and not engage too deeply. Concentrate on tending to your grief. This is a tough time.