Death in nursing home - is this normal - a bit shocked.

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

I'm posting here because I have no-one I can really contact at this time of night.

My MIL has been on palliative care for the last couple of weeks - end stage dementia and possible bowel cancer which wasn't investigated fully after long conversations with her GP. She stopped recognising anyone over 5 years ago. I saw her on Tuesday and it was heartbreaking.

I had a call just after midnight to say she had passed away, and basically the nurse who called immediately asked me to arrange for her to be removed immediately. I am two hours away and my father died in the middle of April, so I am in the middle of organising his funeral. I had mentioned at a meeting with tge funeral director on Tuesday afternoon that my MIL would likely be their next customer but hadn't formally engaged them in respect of her because from experience of several deathbeds one can never be sure how long these things will take and it felt disrespectful. To be frank I'm struggling emotionally with losing my Dad and my MIL became my sole responsibility when my DP died three years ago.

I'm posting because I'm so taken aback by the almost indecent haste of all this. The nurse said she had passed literally ten minutes before they called me.

Nobody explained to me any sort of procedure when I was there on Tuesday. I was asked if anything was in place and said I would make arrangements, but nobody said that if she passed in the night I would be expected to organise everything then and there. They were most insistent that they couldn't keep her till morning even.

Fortunately the funeral directors have a 24 hour line so the nursing home contacted them, but because they are out if area it's all being done through another firm in the interim until all paperwork is completed.

I don't want to over react if this is standard procedure and this is all my fault, so has anyone else had a similar experience? I was left feeling as though I've just done everything wrong, and I'm in bits to be honest. I can't contact anyone for support till the morning, so if anyone can talk me down I'd be really grateful.

I am so sorry for your losses OP, what an awful time for you.
I cannot comment on normal procedures but it sounds pretty heartless and cold to me. Having said that, this experience is always awful. I hope time helps you heal and focus on happy memories with your loved ones.
We are all here if you need a chat.

I think that’s normal process - my mum died recently and we had engaged a funeral directors but they have an arrangement with others to provide 24/7 cover. However the care home contacted them and Her body was collected by a different funeral company and then brought to our funeral directors next day. But they also had to wait for the doctor to attend to certify the death before the funeral directors were contacted.

Care homes aren’t set up to keep bodies. Bodies start to smell, and it’ll be distressing for another resident if they saw a body. Removing a body at night is better for other residents who won’t risk seeing its removal.
Relatives know residents will die in care homes so it should not a surprise that things need to be in place when they do.

Don’t worry about rushing over today. Not all homes strip rooms immediately. My DFIL died recently in a nursing home, similar circs and middle of the night call too. However, we had already been asked about which funeral directors we would be using and the nursing home phoned them to collect straight away. As above it is around preserving the body until the the death certificate has been agreed with the medical al examiner etc. we didn’t clear DFILs room for weeks. There was no pressure on that.

So sorry to hear of your losses, OP. I do think the subject could have been handled in a much kinder manner. Look after yourself.

So sorry about you having to deal with the grief of two losses so close together. My mum passed away at home. We called our gp who gave us a number to call (I don’t remember all the details even though it was only last year) but two very lovely people from the undertakers came round the morning my mum passed and took her away. This was all done within a couple of hours of her passing. Being at home though it was a lot more personal, we were in control and there was no feeling of someone being insensitive. I probably would have felt like you if I had got a call from a nursing home asking me to sort it asap.

That’s awful.

I would expect it to be the next day. What if you wanted to go in and see her? We went in to see my granny the morning after she died.

If you have the energy to complain then do it. If you’re not happy with their response, escalate it to the CQC.

There seems to be a distinct lack of care and empathy towards family managing elderly care.

When my aunt was in a nursing home we were asked before she went in about preferred funeral directors as they did not have facilities to keep bodies. Yes she was removed very quickly. This was so the body could be kept properly. We were given 2 weeks to remove her belongs but actually it only took me less than an hour as they said they would deal will any belongings we didn’t want to. They also told me that, if I was OK with it, they would give her fleece jumpers and toiletries to some of the other residents who didn’t have enough. Really I thought the staff at the home dealt with it quite well. They sent a member of staff to her funeral.
My aunt was self funding and we had to pay for the 2 weeks notice. A lot of the residents were not self funding. I am wondering, if people are paid for by the local council, that the council don’t pay after death.
I don’t think it is reasonable to keep expect to keep the room for a long time after death. Care home places are in short supply.

I’m very sorry for your loss OP. IME (both parents in different homes) this is normal practice. They want the room vacated as soon as possible. They don’t have facilities for storing the deceased and want them cleared quickly.

I was given excellent advice by a dear friend as my DF lay dying, she said if death is imminent call the funeral directors to put them on alert, so that making that second call when he actually passes is easier and they can act promptly. I found that very helpful.

I’m afraid clearing the room will also need to be done quickly as for the home, time is money and they may well have the next resident lined up.

My DF’s care home were lovely, the owner came and visited us while we sat with him, his carers wanted to attend his funeral and we received a very sensitively worded card of condolence from the home. We were asked to clear the room but not hurried.

My DM’s home, she died whilst I was at home having a half hour break from a three day vigil, I was phoned to say she had passed away while the agency nurse was doing the drug round (so alone even though they knew it was imminent), arrangements had been made for “the body” to be removed. Oh and they wanted us to clear her room the next day. Despite her four years there we didn’t receive any further contact from them once we had paid the final account, much less any expression of sympathy.

That’s so awful, OP - you must be reeling.

Came on to say this is not normal in my (very limited) experience, but reading the other comments I think I was just lucky with the home my mum was in, also for dementia palliative care following a stroke. She passed in the middle of the night and the staff couldn’t have been kinder or more helpful - when we arrived the lovely night nurse gave us all hugs, explained she’d been with mum when she died peacefully, and left us to spend private time with her for as long as we wanted. The home then organised her transfer to the local morgue later that day, which I’m pretty sure was before we’d even engaged a funeral director. The staff at that place were amazing, despite being under massive pressure for beds and an increased workload during Covid, but I can see this is sadly not a common experience.

I’m so very sorry for the loss of your parents, I hope you’re ok and have friends and family who can help and support you xx

That’s my understanding of how it happens, shocking as it is.

I expect that’s why they called, to notify and ask if you want to come and see the resident. Bodies deteriorate quickly and if no-one wants to see them then the right thing to do is engage funeral directors. It’ in no-one’s interests to keep a body there for hours.

So very sorry, you’re really having a tough time. My dad died in the early hours and the care home arranged everything. A local undertaker was called and he was removed quietly and efficiently. We didn’t have to do anything.

This is what happened with my Mum. She died at around 11pm and they rang me to let me know (I’d been with her till 10.30pm and she passed when I left, which seems to happen a lot)! They asked me to contact the funeral directors to arrange to collect her the next morning. I think with care homes they aren’t set up to keep bodies around, with my Mums case this was a complex needs end of life type nursing home and she had been sharing a room with someone right up until a few days before she became unresponsive so I think they wanted the other person to be able to have their room back. Space was at a premium (!)

If the room is paid up to the end of the month, a refund would be given for any unused days.
As a previous poster said, it's not just the balance sheet, it's a social issue as well. Care home beds are in very short supply and are desperately needed to allow hospitals to move people on who don't need to be in hospital but have nowhere else to go, thereby freeing up a hospital bed for someone who urgently needs medical care.
OP I'm sorry for your loss.

I am so sorry OP. Such a difficult time for you.

Unfortunately it is comon practice and I expect they phoned you to check you were ok with their choice of undertakers if their usual ones were not available.

It will all have been stated in your intitial contract with the home. It is very common for them to charge you for extra weeks after your loved ones death so when you feel up to it worth checking what that situation is too as well as the usually very short time period you have to clear the room out. You can not assume you will get a refund.

Similar but to add that the nursing home stole my mother’s new clothing (lovely scarves and clothes) and toiletries (the best brands). We didn’t take it further as they denied taking her things and we needed closure. So do check your MIL belongings.

Registered Nurse in a nursing home here. No, it’s not normal. And presumably the nurse who phoned you was qualified to verify death, as there wouldn’t have been time for the doctor to have visited.

Would they really have had a new person in the bed by 6am though if someone had died at midnight.

I used to work in a cafe home. It's unlikely that a doctor would've been around during the night to certify the death never mind get the undertaker to collect the deceased within 2 hours

I was going to say this but I am very very sorry for your loses. That is so tough for you.

I’m so sorry for your loss 💐

This is a real eye opener to me. I had no idea that some care homes operated like this.

Please don’t blame yourself for thinking you missed something said to you on Tuesday, they should have been very clear.

Whoever phoned you last night was extremely tactless.

It's also common for people to die in their sleep. And no one else to know about it until the morning. The bodies don't determinate that bloody quickly

I’m sorry for your loss.

It’s normal to have the body removed quickly, but they ought to have asked you in advanced re what funeral director and called them themselves once you were informed.

Unfortunately yes, I think it’s the norm. I had this with my mother, who also had had dementia for several years. I’d been with her during the day at the care home and it was pretty clear that things were coming to an end. I’d only just lost two other close family members a few months earlier, and yet couldn’t even stay overnight at mums house that night as dad was still alive, had a new girlfriend, and at the last minute wouldn’t let me stay because the girlfriend was staying (in mums room too - I was not happy), so I had to drive home late that night (2 hour journey). (To be fair he’d done a great job of keeping mum out of a home by looking after her brilliantly for 5 years until his own health failed, so I did understand it was his way of covering up his distress - but still!)

She died about 2am, when the home rang me, and said her body needed to be removed at once, as the other residents got too distressed if they saw a body removed. She was taken to the chapel at the undertakers later that night, about 4am.

Fortunately I was already aware that the funding died with her, and the home needed her room back really quickly, and that we had little time, so went back down that morning with my brother and daughter (who both lived in different directions some distance away) and we cleared her room that morning. To be fair there wasn’t much and we’d already been aware that quite a lot disappeared from her room, which was why I had been making very frequent visits to see her at unscheduled times. We then went to see her at the chapel, which was a beautiful and calming experience, and I suspect most certainly better than seeing her in the home.

If I’m honest it was quite a relief to clear everything from the home. My father’s reaction was a different matter, so I ended up having to deal with everything, all the arrangements, and cope with that too. It is a really tough and emotional time, and I really feel for you.

I do think we need to be told in advance how little time there is to clear things after a death in a care home - the funding ceases almost at once, and otherwise you can easily end up with a big bill for the room. I was fortunate that I’d been warned of this in advance by the home, so it didn’t come as a shock - that was really helpful to know and I was prepared for it, as was my brother and daughter - but like you was shocked at the speed that her body had to be removed. Please do take care of yourself and take time to look after yourself to keep yourself fit through what is a tough time.

There is no rush for personal belongings, they should store them.

Without being crass, the levels of heating required to keep the elderly and sick warm, is not suitable for a deceased person.

They try to get the remains to the mortuary quickly, once the on-call doctor has certified the death.