Death in nursing home - is this normal - a bit shocked.

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

I'm posting here because I have no-one I can really contact at this time of night.

My MIL has been on palliative care for the last couple of weeks - end stage dementia and possible bowel cancer which wasn't investigated fully after long conversations with her GP. She stopped recognising anyone over 5 years ago. I saw her on Tuesday and it was heartbreaking.

I had a call just after midnight to say she had passed away, and basically the nurse who called immediately asked me to arrange for her to be removed immediately. I am two hours away and my father died in the middle of April, so I am in the middle of organising his funeral. I had mentioned at a meeting with tge funeral director on Tuesday afternoon that my MIL would likely be their next customer but hadn't formally engaged them in respect of her because from experience of several deathbeds one can never be sure how long these things will take and it felt disrespectful. To be frank I'm struggling emotionally with losing my Dad and my MIL became my sole responsibility when my DP died three years ago.

I'm posting because I'm so taken aback by the almost indecent haste of all this. The nurse said she had passed literally ten minutes before they called me.

Nobody explained to me any sort of procedure when I was there on Tuesday. I was asked if anything was in place and said I would make arrangements, but nobody said that if she passed in the night I would be expected to organise everything then and there. They were most insistent that they couldn't keep her till morning even.

Fortunately the funeral directors have a 24 hour line so the nursing home contacted them, but because they are out if area it's all being done through another firm in the interim until all paperwork is completed.

I don't want to over react if this is standard procedure and this is all my fault, so has anyone else had a similar experience? I was left feeling as though I've just done everything wrong, and I'm in bits to be honest. I can't contact anyone for support till the morning, so if anyone can talk me down I'd be really grateful.

Well I sat with my friend in a very warm nursing home for 4hrs and witnessed it with my very eyes. Why keep someone until morning when funeral directors are on call 24-7 for this very reason.

That sounds brutal, I’m so sorry.
I was there when DM died in her care home (97, advanced Alzh.) and certainly don’t remember any ‘indecent haste’ - the staff were very kind,

I had assumed that they preferred undertakers to come while most residents (all with dementia) were asleep, or at least not wandering about to witness a body being taken away. I used to think my DM must have seen at least one such, since she was a ‘wanderer’ at all hours, and went through a phase of telling me, ‘They kill people here!’ and it was very difficult to soothe her.

Dad died in a care home and it wasn't like this.

He died in the night and I went in to see him.

When I left, I said I would arrange for the FD to come and collect him, I called them as soon as they were open and they collected him within four hours of the call.

At no point was it rushed or upsetting so you have had a bad rap OP sorry and I'm sorry for your losses.

It does seem like unseemly haste, for sure. I also think it must be very difficult for any friends she might have had in the care home, who will wake up this morning and find their friend is not only dead, but has been whisked away in the middle of the night, never to be seen again.

We got a call in the night that my father wasn’t great, by the time we got there he’d passed away. They left us with him for a time then came back with a form and questions. The main one being who was our undertaker to come and remove him now overnight. We hadn’t planned for this and were sat there in the room next to my father’s body frantically googling undertakers. It was an unpleasant part of the process but it sounds very common.

It’s definitely something that could be sensitively planned for in advance by care homes gently discussing this with families when someone is EOL.

I have had two relatives die in nursing homes, one late at night and one during the night. In neither case were we subjected to such a rush. We were able to visit in the morning, funeral directors were contacted and arranged collection by midday.

Obviously you appreciate the need not to hang around, but a few hours would surely not make that much difference. Surely it's possible to move swiftly without making grieving families feel so harried.

Im very sorry for your loss OP, and that you have had such an unpleasant start to your grieving process.

I appreciate it seems brutal but I think it is common practice to move bodies out of nursing homes as quickly as possible. It some ways it helps minimise the potential for destressing situations for other residents/visitors/staff. It is not dissimilar to a hospital. It is not easy though when it your loved one - so sorry for your loses.

So sorry OP.
My Mum died in a care home, I was with her when she died, it was mid morning. To be honest I don’t remember anything about who first called the undertaker, I think possibly the home did that. We knew Mum was dying so it wasn’t out of the blue.
Certainly I didn’t feel hugely rushed on the day. I went home after a while and the staff in the home laid her out before the undertaker arrived, apparently this is something they like to do. I did collect her things fairly quickly but it was several days not hours, they were nice about it.
I think the need of a speedy undertaker is partly because care homes tend to be hot places, and they have nowhere to keep a body cool . My Mum was collected that afternoon, so she died at about 11, and she had been collected and taken to the funeral parlour by three, I do remember that.
It does sound as though they are being quite insensitive, but the body needing to be collected quickly is normal.
My next door neighbour died at home, a friend was with her, and her body was also collected within two or three hours.

I am so sorry for your loss. The nursing home should have arranged for your dear mum being taken into the care of the undertakers that you named. This is what happened when my DH died in a hospice: they looked after him until our funeral directors took him into their care.
I think it is usual for the nursing home to ask you for the name of a funeral director but not to hassle you for immediate removal - that's awful. They presumably have accommodation for deceased residents while arrangements are made.
Worth complaining if you can bear to, I think.

I have had this happen twice where I was the only person 'available' to organise parents passing and funeral arrangements.

Siblings were truly hopeless and lived abroad..

In the cold light of day they cannot leave bodies for relatives to arrive. Often people dont know what to do, who to call, how much a funeral costs etc.. The reason I am saying this is that a relative was actually abroad when their Father passed. They asked the home to keep the body until they were back from holiday with their reasoning being he wasnt alive so it wouldnt make any difference. They also wanted to say goodbye at the place he was living rather than in a funeral home. In that case I think its safe to say they were cluleless!

My Father had a funeral plan so that was easy and he died in hospital.

My Mum was in a care home and died early morning and they called me. I already had the funeral director I wanted to use and I called them. They were there quickly. They are used to middle of the night calls, Christmas Day calls. They were dressed extremely smartly and it was a Bank Holiday. Her death wasnt unexpected but my sister ran out of charge apparently when I tried to call her so she was one of the last to know. As I said hopeless and actually quite happy for others to resolve.

Of course its fine after the event to say didnt you do this or that. Its all new to most of us so unless you do some research in advance why would you know the ins and outs. A good FD is very very useful and can guide you and do all the running around with a clear head. They also give you some time to decide where you want that person buried unless you know already.

I remember being asked (told) to remove "the body" as soon as possible. While I understand most care homes don't have the facilities to keep deceased residents on their premises, a little compassion and appropriate language would have gone a long way.

OP I hope you've got some support? Sending you huge digital hugs & thoughts, that's a lot for one person to deal with over so few years 💐

You’re not being unreasonable to be shocked, but it’s relatively standard in my experience. Been through it 3 times and they can’t seem to get them out quick enough and get someone else in. No empathy or kindness at all.

After an aunt died in her care home, we were asked whether we’d mind leaving her things, some were nice, but they even wanted her old faded nighties, since they had residents with very little money and no relatives to buy them anything. 😰. Any leftover toiletries were used likewise.

We were happy to do so. Should add that all the residents in her wing had dementia, and were unlikely to be remotely bothered about what they wore. My formerly very fastidious DM was the same once dementia got its brutal grip on her.

That’s a completely different situation to what we faced. When family arrived to collect her things on the same day she died her good clothes had gone as had her best toiletries. Her things had been there the day before. Our mother died in the night. The staff were asked but said that nothing had been taken from the room. It was disgraceful. This was a private nursing home. Not to go off topic on the thread.

Sorry for your loss OP 💐

Not quite the same but similar, FIL lived in supported housing but passed away in hospital. When DH phoned the management to inform them, the first thing they said was "we'll still need this week's rent in full" no condolences or any sympathy which was shocking as they'd always seemed very compassionate and caring when we'd had interactions with them while FIL was alive!

Yes happened with my father who was transferred from hospital to a nursing home. I'd just visited him and on arriving home (30 minutes) got a phone call to say "Hello, sorry your father has just died. We need to remove the body. Can you phone the funeral directors"

It is somewhat the norm for the deceased to be collected pretty quickly after death in care homes. I know the one my GMIL and the one my Gran was in both have a procedure in place for when residents die. My Grandad and my MIL have both had to select a funeral home they would like Gran or GMIL to go to when they pass away. Both funeral parlours my MIL and grandad selected had 24hr lines and an out of hours service. They were asked by the care homes if they would prefer the care home to make arrangements for collection to the selected funeral parlour or if they wanted to do it themselves.

When my Gran died the care home phoned my grandad to let him know she had passed and that they would contact the funeral parlour (as agreed) to arrange pick up. The funeral parlour rang him a couple of hours later to confirm they had collected and he could come down to see her now or he could wait until the morning and come in.

The care staff packed all grans belongings into boxes and bags that they labelled (again you could choose if you want the home to pack the room or if someone would do it) and the belongings had to be collected within 3 days. If you were packing the room yourself then the room had to be packed and vacated within 48 hours or you had to pay for another week of care. I know that the room Gran was in had a new resident in it within 3 days of her death. Unfortunately there is such a demand for care home beds that they are on a very quick turn around. Some homes around us will turn a room round within 2 days.

What a great way to manage it. Does the research for you and gives you two options. Clear on the timescales too

How awful for you, I'm so sorry.
I don't know if there have been any regulatory changes in the past few years but when my DM died in a nursing home in 2016 there was nothing like this.
She had been unconscious for a few days before she passed away, we saw her in the afternoon of her last day then I got a call around midnight to say she had died. i asked if I could come in and see her then and there and they said of course.
My DB, who lived a couple of hours away, came to see her in the morning around 10am and she was taken away by the funeral diriectors after that.
At no time were we under any pressure to have her her removed before then. In fact her GP was also at the nursing home to sign her death certificate when my DB visited and it was only after that the funeral directors arrived. (GP had also seen her shortly before she died.)

DF died in a nursing home at midnight and the undertakers collected him mid afternoon the following day. It didn’t matter that much because it was an old building probably not purpose built, and his room was near the entrance so nobody but us saw his body being wheeled out.

DM died in a different, purpose-built nursing home. We knew she was going and the Manager asked us to alert local undertakers that we would likely need them within a few hours. I didn’t particularly question it at the time. She died around 6pm and had to be wheeled past the main reception/coffee area around 10pm after all the residents were tucked up in their rooms.

Could it have been a similar situation for your mum? (Although it does seem speedily insensitive, barely giving you time to say goodbye.)

I'm sorry for your recent losses, so close together, that's really difficult to deal with and no wonder you're struggling.

In all homes I've worked in we would have a section of the care plan that details what happens to the person once they've passed away, anyone that needs to be informed immediately, any religious rituals that should be observed and which FD is to be called and if anything specific needs to go with the person at the time. Some people won't even discuss it at all and others hand you all the details, others say they will deal with it when the time comes.

It does sound like a miscommunication between the home and you, in that they asked and maybe you didn't quite realise what they meant, but by saying you would organise it, they believed that they needed to call you to arrange MIL being collected rather than them doing so.
Nowhere I've worked had an 'arrangement' as such with any FD because people use different ones, if we were to call we'd already have the information on file, or we'd have to ask the NOK at the time it happened, which isn't a great time but sometimes there is no other option.

I've done this a lot unfortunately and I've always asked the family if they would like me to make the immediate arrangements either if they've been there or if I've needed to call them, no matter what the file said, and if no FD on file, ask who their preferred one is should they want us to call.

And yes, it is always preferable for someone to be collected through the night, it can be distressing for the other residents to witness and it's not always possible to keep them away or not come through a main area with a body. Plus as unfortunate as this is, doors to the outside need to be open which poses a risk to the residents who want to leave but can't.

Morning is also the busiest time in a care home with Drs, nurses, and other professionals visiting as well as families, people being helped to wash/shower and dress and eat breakfast, take medication and most places barely have enough staff for that, so adding a funeral director into that as well is really stretching the resources.

I get that it all feels a bit rushed to you right now, but I wouldn't delve into the whys and what fors at this time, you're grieving two people you loved and that's enough for anyone to deal with in one go, I don't think it's anyone's at fault either, it's just the way it has happened.

@MichaelandKirk they are both private homes - same group. Both my Gran and GMIL were self funding. GMIL is still self funding. Gran died pre covid so not sure if things have changed since.

It did seem a bit morbid at the time to be filling out death procedures but it made things much smoother when Gran did die. I suppose in the stark light of day, the home arranging pick up with the chosen funeral parlour and packing the room up is more profitable for the home as they can get it cleared, packed and cleaned within hours, ready for a new resident pretty much the next day.

They are assholes. They want her bed to be filled up asap for £. Do things in your own time. Speak to the manager not the nurses.

It’s normal in my experience, when dh died within 5 hours he smelt but he was in hospital so went to the morgue after I left.

They need a quick turnaround on rooms or relatives take too long to remove belongings.

Most FD have a 24 hr line people die all times of day.

Its what a lot of you on this thread will have to deal with it’s not cruel we’re either living or decaying and bodies need cold storage asap.