DH throwing out my things

[fa556]

DH is a minimalist to the extreme, he has very little in terms of 'things'. Naturally I'm the opposite, a hoarder. Over the years I've conceded ground and downsized a LOT to pacify him, although it's probably fair to say that I still have too much stuff and it's also a bit messy and cluttered. Having kids has obviously brought more stuff to the house generally, but my own "stuff" is contained, with most of the house being tidy and (from my perspective at least) quite minimalist as he likes it. The "stuff" is in our bedroom (my side) to some extent, but mostly in my study which only I use.
In response to my compromises, instead of compromising too he seems to be going the other way. I'm increasingly finding my stuff in the bin, or things have just disappeared. I'm not talking about my most prized possessions, but they are things that I have bought, with my own money, for myself, that are on my side of the bedroom or in my study. I've always known not to leave things lying around in the kitchen or lounge or whatever for this reason, but it's like he's encroaching more and more on what I'd consider limited private spaces. To be fair, a lot of them are not big stuff. But even if it's just a receipt, it might be for some things I had meant to return or where I was going to claim something back as an expense. But to him, he's right and I'm wrong.
Even if it's actually something that is completely unimportant and doesn't matter to me, I still feel in principle that he shouldn't be throwing out my things from my study without checking or at the very least telling me. Am I being unreasonable?
When I pick him up on something specific, the response is always about the actual thing in question "what were you going to do with it anyway / it had a rip in it / you said yourself you have too many socks". Where for me, it's about the principle of it being up to me what to do with my own things. He says my clutter affects him as he lives here too, but he increasingly seems to be looking for it beyond surface level (while he is extremely private about his own things).
His 'need' to get rid of things also extends to perishable goods. So I might buy an expensive condiment (where he won't spend a penny more than he has to on anything), or I'll get a bottle of Baileys as a present from someone, he'll use them up as fast as he can, I'm talking days, not really 'enjoying' them as far as I can see, but just to get them out of the house. And inside I feel "hey they are my nice things", but am I just being selfish?
The other side is that I probably do have too much stuff and too much emotional attachment to 'things'. And gifts I receive like the Baileys could be in the cupboard for weeks/months otherwise. He says they're there to be used. Should I just give in?
At the moment I'm not giving in, at least not in my head, it's a huge source of frustration for me. But any effort to put a boundary in place on this, as with anything else really, is met with a bullheaded wall of stubborness ("I'm not agreeing to that"). I basically have to let it go time and again. But it's making me very anxious, what will be gone next?

Hi OP, many thanks for the update. I agree with posters who say that even without any threat of physical violence, your DH is abusive and controlling.

You say that he moved into your house. He is trying to claim full ownership and control of your house and the things that are in there. He wants to obliterate/destroy any objects that belong to you, things that you have chosen and which give you pleasure.

His behaviour is almost pathological and sounds very frightening. What is your financial situation? Could you manage without him if you asked him to leave? What is he like with your children and their things? Does he treat them with the same contempt that he treats you and your belongings?

If I were you, I would seek some therapy on your own and consult a solicitor for advice on separating/divorcing. You must be so unhappy, walking on eggshells every day.

OP, I hope you know he doesn’t have to be physically abusive or threaten to be, to be abusive. He’s a controlling fuck and it’s very hard when someone is controlling and gaslighting you the way he is to see that it’s OK to leave. Many of us have been there and have had the “if only he’d hit me, then I’d have a reason to go” way of thinking.

What helped me:

1. Writing down, free writing, what life without him would look. He kept telling me the way we lived was normal, I was abnormal for rebelling against it, if I’d just COMPLY. I kept putting myself into smaller and smaller boundaries the way you are and it didn’t help, he’d just push me further – the way he’s now encroaching on your study. Writing “a day in the life” down was revelatory – even stupid things like I could cook what I wanted, with the lights on and the window open, move around the kitchen at the speed I wanted. Go to yoga and dawdle home instead of walking at a clip, filled with dread I’d be “late”. Sounds silly but it was mindblowing going “OK, but my abnormal sounds kinda nice, maybe he’s the problem, perhaps I’ll get a cat and eat pizza in a restaurant even though he doesn’t like pizza, is this what freedom tastes like?!” (Freedom tastes like pizza.)
2. Therapy. Both talking and a crap group CBT session at the library that again, helped me see: I’m not anxious, I simply have a terrifyingly controlling partner.
3. A wonderful, wonderful friend who said: “OK, even if he’s right, you can go! Maybe you ARE abnormal and want to live in a weird way, maybe you ARE the awful person he tells you that you are – go ahead and do the awful thing of leaving him, be selfish and live alone abnormally doing your weird shit. Prove him right.” It was great because it undermined everything he’d told me; his big power was that I was bad and wrong and she gave me permission to be bad and wrong – and within days of escaping it was like, wait, I’m not awful and I’m FREE.

Maybe you can’t afford the house with a study and enough bedrooms for the kids on one wage – but maybe you don’t need the study if you’re able to spread your stuff through the house a bit more. Maybe you’ll discover that your level of mess is perfectly fine, that the kids get to play a bit more because they don’t have to clear up every second or have their toys/art/clothes binned, maybe you’ll have more free time because you’re not constantly having to hide your stuff/tidy beside your bed/police your bottle of Baileys so you get to drink some.

So it seems the house is yours? How long have you been married?

The longer you stay, the more likely it is that the house will become part of joint marital property.

in your shoes I would take legal advice sooner rather than later. Even if, at this point, you cannot face the thought of ending the marriage.

The fact that the OP is scared of his disproportionate reaction were she to treat his posessions the way he treats hers is the most telling thing here.

These threads always make me so cross.

1. Some people are mentally unwell and / or abusive.
2. Different people have different ideas of how much stuff is pleasant to have in their living space.

There is only a problem if one person is in 1 and therefore tries to force their ideas about 2. on their partner. Being a "hoarder" or a "neat freak" doesn't make someone an abuser or make an unhappy relationship. Controlling someone else does.

Relationships are about compromise and respect, I'm not seeing any of that in OP's description of her partner. He seems to be getting more sympathy than he deserves though. because he is the minimalist and minimalism is weirdly fetishised. I hate minimal homes, sterile white boxes feel like show homes but if my partner did want that then we would have killed each other by now would compromise to find a solution.

Reading your update, @fa556 and your references to the clutter chart has helped clarify a lot of things.
Like i said in my previous post, I could not live like you are doing with this man. I mean this sincerely.. He needs to go.
I can't imagine your mental health and the constant anxiety you must live with because in your shoes, i would not feel safe.
I can't even start to imagine the damage this is doung to your children.
I am so sorry.
He needs to go.

My husband is someone with hoarding potential, so I’ll admit to frequently throwing out his stuff. He rarely, if ever, notices.

For example, he’d kept theatre programs going back 30 years. Why? I threw the lot out. Will he ever notice? No. He also had a box of maps and tourist guides. They’ve all mysteriously disappeared too. 😆 I mean, is he one day going to think, I must get out that pocket guide to Paris from the 90s? No.

So whilst I think your husband is very OTT, OP, I do have a tiny bit of sympathy. If you live with someone prone to it, you’re on high-alert for potential hoarding and crap building up. In this case though, your husband has lost sight of what’s reasonable and has tipped over into extremely controlling behaviour.

So, in other words, you're being belittled, bullied and ridden over pretty constantly. Get out. You shouldn't live your life being fearful of his reaction when you attempt to stand up for yourself.

@PorgyandBess I collect theatre programmes. Do you believe people shouidn’t collect things?

I collect books. I haven’t read some (actually, many) of them yet.

I expect that makes me a hoarder and many on this thread would deem me worthy of a shunning.

ETA: I also have a lovely old copy of Paris par arrondissement and if my DH threw it out without my knowledge I’d be utterly furious with him.

Do you have multiple collections that require you to have a disproportionate volume of your house given over to your collections?

See the difference?

Come snd join me in the shunned corner. We can drink hoarded booze and gloat over our stuff.

Define disproportionate

And what happens when he does notice? Do you apologise, or does he assume that he is the one to blame? Does he object to you overstepping the mark with his possessions - like with the OP?

I'm like PP: a theatre programme is a reminder of a special day out, and the only tangible memory of a live performance that remains. I like to keep them too. I have some from years ago, which bring back memories of happy times spent with loved ones who are no longer here.

How many times would you need to go to the theatre for your amassed collection of programmes to take more than a small box? And if you did have the money, free time and opportunity to go out to the theatre every week, surely they would cease to be at all special to you, wouldn't they?

Now I have one room where I have everything that's left. It's also where I work. I do need to tidy it. The room is far messier because none of the stuff can be safely kept anywhere else in the house.
So the slow creep is not out of the study into the rest of the house, the slow creep is the creep of extreme minimalism spreading towards me. The study used to be my space but he's increasingly seeing it as the next thing to 'sort', and there's no acknowledgement whatsoever for the sacrificies I've made up to now.

This is the crux of the problem in my view. You are NOT a hoarder, but because he is so obsessive and controlling about a lack of possessions, he’s made you feel one, because you have to keep everything in one place or risk it being arbitrarily dumped. And it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, because now he will feel justified in saying “But of course you’re a hoarder, of course you have a problem - the state of your study proves it!”

Don't let him gaslight you like this. Start by getting that padlock, today.

Can I come? I collect books I will probably never read too 😎

To look for a moment at the who is a hoarder and who is not question....and setting aside abuse snd coercion, I think its not about how much stuff makes you a hoarder but how you feel. Do you feel happy and relaxed in your home? I get that a maximalist and a minimalist are going to atruggle to be happy together but I don't think that either position is inherently wrong. People go on sort your life out type programs because they are unhappy with their situation. The people who who are at the furthest end of the keeping stuff spectrum are not often happy with how they are. Either they feel its a protection or its got beyond what they are able to deal with. I sort of sense disdain here from the minimalists among us......why is that?

Yup, all welcome and not just book collectors.....ya wanna see my fabric stash?

OP, I think the second sentence of your original post is what caused a number of people concern. When someone describes themselves as a 'hoarder' it conjures up all sorts of images despite mentioning only one side of the bed & the study as the areas could be filled to the point you can hardly walk through. You were right to clarify this. Hopefully you can move forward with a better understanding of how to cope with your relationship.

I am so sad you are afraid of him. He came into your house and you have thrown 90% of your possessions away. God that sucks. What a mean joyless arse. It doesn’t have to be like that.

It's not funny and why are you with him?

But are they in piles in every room in your house?
Or are they on bookshelves?

It's storage that makes the difference

If things are important they don't belong on the floor

He’s my Dad. I can’t just get rid of him lol

This is no way to live ❤️ I would seriously think about leaving in a situation like this. It’s so controlling and I can’t imagine how it feels to not feel like your home is a safe space where you can just, relax and be. I don’t mean that in a “you’re in danger” way, but not feeling like you have control over your things and surroundings because you can’t trust your husband not to remove them - it’s such a head fuck. So so not okay.

Assume you live with 3 others is your share of the storage volume approximately 1/4. If it is twice someone else’s as and example then maybe. If it is twice everyone else’s, or other people have had to disappear stuff so that you can expand into the vacancy then that for me would be disproportionate.

Or more simplistically (just a thought experiment) imagine food was eaten in the same proportion for every meal: would you be obese?

If you had to store absolutely fucking everything you didn't want throwing out randomly, in one small room, it might well look like that. I would certainly not be judging based on that, give the parameters OP has to work with!