DH throwing out my things

[fa556]

DH is a minimalist to the extreme, he has very little in terms of 'things'. Naturally I'm the opposite, a hoarder. Over the years I've conceded ground and downsized a LOT to pacify him, although it's probably fair to say that I still have too much stuff and it's also a bit messy and cluttered. Having kids has obviously brought more stuff to the house generally, but my own "stuff" is contained, with most of the house being tidy and (from my perspective at least) quite minimalist as he likes it. The "stuff" is in our bedroom (my side) to some extent, but mostly in my study which only I use.
In response to my compromises, instead of compromising too he seems to be going the other way. I'm increasingly finding my stuff in the bin, or things have just disappeared. I'm not talking about my most prized possessions, but they are things that I have bought, with my own money, for myself, that are on my side of the bedroom or in my study. I've always known not to leave things lying around in the kitchen or lounge or whatever for this reason, but it's like he's encroaching more and more on what I'd consider limited private spaces. To be fair, a lot of them are not big stuff. But even if it's just a receipt, it might be for some things I had meant to return or where I was going to claim something back as an expense. But to him, he's right and I'm wrong.
Even if it's actually something that is completely unimportant and doesn't matter to me, I still feel in principle that he shouldn't be throwing out my things from my study without checking or at the very least telling me. Am I being unreasonable?
When I pick him up on something specific, the response is always about the actual thing in question "what were you going to do with it anyway / it had a rip in it / you said yourself you have too many socks". Where for me, it's about the principle of it being up to me what to do with my own things. He says my clutter affects him as he lives here too, but he increasingly seems to be looking for it beyond surface level (while he is extremely private about his own things).
His 'need' to get rid of things also extends to perishable goods. So I might buy an expensive condiment (where he won't spend a penny more than he has to on anything), or I'll get a bottle of Baileys as a present from someone, he'll use them up as fast as he can, I'm talking days, not really 'enjoying' them as far as I can see, but just to get them out of the house. And inside I feel "hey they are my nice things", but am I just being selfish?
The other side is that I probably do have too much stuff and too much emotional attachment to 'things'. And gifts I receive like the Baileys could be in the cupboard for weeks/months otherwise. He says they're there to be used. Should I just give in?
At the moment I'm not giving in, at least not in my head, it's a huge source of frustration for me. But any effort to put a boundary in place on this, as with anything else really, is met with a bullheaded wall of stubborness ("I'm not agreeing to that"). I basically have to let it go time and again. But it's making me very anxious, what will be gone next?

So that's what a happy marriage is, then? Two adults who live together, having made vows to share mutual love - where one of them decides what suits him and his preferences and the other has to either ignore her own wishes (or he can do that on her behalf) and go along with whatever he dictates, or otherwise she is to blame for the marriage not being happy? Got it.

This sounds like my husband ( hoarder) and me. I’m not minimalist in any way but the stuff he keeps drives me mad at times. He too keeps receipts to claim expenses but doesn’t get round to claiming the expenses. I bin the receipts once they are a year old.
I was clearing out a drawer recently and found a folder which contained airmail letters and envelopes. I laughed saying omg look what I found and as I was about to chuck it out ( into the recycling obviously) . My husband said that I couldn’t get rid of it as it was a present to him but he couldn’t remember who bought it for him. I have family abroad, he doesn’t and I think I probably used the folder last which would have been at least 10 years ago. But no I absolutely couldn’t get rid of it.
When we moved in together he’d brought his stuff which included bizarrely used envelopes.
in his defence he has been recently diagnosed with ADHD.

That's even worse, when he doesn't even live there. How arrogant to not know what boxes are for, but just assume that they are no use - and you've been keeping them pointlessly, presumably too stupid to realise that you don't use them for a purpose.

I remember a MN thread from a while back which was even worse than that. OP and DH were away on holiday and his parents had agreed to come over to feed the cat and water the plants.

OP's MIL went searching in the back of OP's wardrobe and found a shoebox containing obviously precious items, such as cards from and photos of dear loved ones from her childhood, who had since died, along with a few other treasured keepsakes.

She threw them all in their wheelie bin - knowing that the bin men would have been and gone before they returned from holiday - and then smirked as she declared that she'd helped them by clearing out some old junk for them. Their house was extremely tidy and MIL hadn't thrown anything else away.

Some people do just hate what they see as junk; but some people are truly nasty and like nothing more than deliberately devastating other people for fun.

Radically lose your shit (and lace the Baileys with laxatives before hiding all the toilet paper)? Joking apart, this is very poor behaviour, controlling. Not respecting boundaries.

OP if you want to hoard anything make sure it’s money so when you feel ready to leave him, at least you have the finances.

It’s difficult to know how much of a hoarder you are without photos. Are you just using it to say you have difficultly getting rid of stuff or you accumulate and keep stuff to the extent that it is impacting yours and your families quality of life? Is the study floor to ceiling crammed or some surface clutter?

either way your husband has no right to throw away your things and try to control the entire household. If you are a hoarder then he should be trying to support you, likewise you support him with his obsessive need for minimalism and perhaps letting some of that go.

what’s he like with the kids? Does he shout at them when they make a mess or throw their things away?

He seems very intolerant of u and your needs and wishes. He should not get rid of anyone’s possessions without their permission.

When you find something belonging to you in the bin do you ask him why is it there?

Does he ever apologise?

Sorry saraclara but I don’t like the sound of him.

My ex use to be like this. It's a form of coercive control.... He obviously was perfect and EVERYONE else was wrong for owning too much stuff!
He went through my bedside table drawer one day and 'sorted' through it for me without my permission. In the process he threw out my diamond earrings. But that was my fault for not putting them away properly apparently.
Also tried to convince me that we only needed 2 plates, two cups, two forks etc in the house as there was only two of us living there so why would we need more than that??
Wasted nearly 2 decades of my life with that controlling bastard.
He's an ex for a reason....

Also madly expensive 😂

From your original post I thought your husband sounded like a dick, from this reply he sounds like an abusive bully. I know it's easier said then done from the outside but you really need to leave him. Why should you share your house and life with someone who doesn't give a damn about your feelings and wants all his own way!? Plus your children will pick up on how he treats you and think that is normal.

You are living with a dangerous obsessive control freak/bully. You should do what the residents of a hapless coastal town in the path of a category five hurricane do, get the hell out of there.

My-way-or-no-way people are some of the worst and really need a good beating whenever they try to apply that shit on other people.

All the people slathering for photos like starving dogs should be ashamed.

Hello there,

In general, I would say that throwing your stuff away without asking first is unacceptable. However, would you ever say, “Yes, throw that away” if he did ask first? I only ask because my brother is a hoarder, and he said his house was “a little messy” when it was full of garbage and rotting food and filth everywhere. I am not saying that you are living like this, but hoarders don’t see their situation clearly. Can you ask a third party who has been in your home if you are keeping things that you should not? Perhaps he is being too controlling, or maybe he is desperate. Good luck to you, it is a hard situation.

As a fellow hoarders I wouldn't expect someone to find a receipt and not bin it. It would be in my purse, in my documents if it was linked to a big purchase or in the bin anyway

And while I wouldn't want to rush things I do agree a bit that if you wait for the right time to enjoy the baileys you might never drink it

No sorry, even if you are the world's worst hoarder throwing away your stuff is unacceptable, it's bullying and controlling- and he has a problem. You need couples therapy at the very least.

He reminds me a lot of my ex. If we had a disagreement, we had to compromise... except to him, "compromise" meant me ceding to him, there was always a reason why it was totally unreasonable for me to expect him to cede any ground. And if he was annoyed with me, then it was my fault for doing whatever it was that annoyed him. But if I was annoyed with him, then it was my fault for failing to compromise, for placing undue importance on things that didn't matter, for winding myself up and for not practicing calming techniques to calm myself down. In short, he was always right, no matter what. He also had no respect for other people's point of view, interests, and, by extension, belongings. We actually had a similar argument when moving house once, where I sold something to someone online, and when the girl turned up to collect it (I was out), he gave her a couple of my other things as well. He (I think genuinely) thought we wouldn't need it in the next house, but I disagreed, and anyway, it's the principle! That was my item, that I bought with my own money, and chose because I liked it! It ultimately shows a lack of respect for you and your wishes.

At best, bull-headed to the point where it made co-existence completely impossible. At worst, coercive, controlling and abusive. All I can say is, I'm well rid.

Re: the Baileys, sure, but equally if he hurries to finish it in the space of a few days then she won't get to enjoy it either. I think it's normal to open things like Baileys and condiments and enjoy them slowly over the course of 2 or 3 or 4 weeks.

This was my Dad, only my mum had barely anything at all in terms of possessions. He just had fits of throwing things away that HE deemed unnecessary, including my things. He even threw out their wedding photos and my birth certificate (my birth certificate was done purposely in front of me when I was naughty as a child of about 7/8ish). Anyway, he’s been dead many years now but it still affects my mum and she still talks about it whenever the context of men crossing boundaries or being controlling or abusive (which he was in many other ways also). Don’t be like my Mum, OP and let him control you, it will eat away at you for years to come.

If you only have your belongings in your study and your side of a bedroom I don’t think that’s hoarding at all. We are all allowed to own stuff.

As for the treat items, especially when gifts, that’s not on at all. It’s far more ‘normal’ to have a bottle in the cupboard or a box of chocs etc to enjoy as a special treat occasionally. He’s getting to eat and drink your special foods and gifts whilst not replenishing or properly enjoying so I’d not like that at all.

This sounds more like a controlling situation rather than anything else.

Also it probably brings you comfort to have special things, gifts, stuff you’ve treated yourself too because of how he’s being with you.

I don't know what to say, it's taken so long to read your messages but most of them are very much appreciated. Although some of your advice is hard to swallow, I already feel less stressed out about the situation somehow, and a little more clear and confident in my situation. Even the opposite viewpoint has helped me see more clearly. And even the deliberately mean ones are illuminating in some way.

There's no way I can address everything, but I did read everything. Thanks especially to those who've been most supportive in the thread, you know who you are.

One thing I'm more clear on, as picked up on by a number of you, is that I'm not an actual hoarder. So apologies for causing confusion on that front. I am a bit messy and don't get round to sorting through junk for a while. If I was single my house would be much messier, but nothing even approaching an actual hoarder's house.

Apart from my study, the house has no real clutter at all. A single piece of paper on the dinner table or a window sill for even a couple of hours would be in the line of fire to be thrown away, or at least to be queried "What's this?" as if a poo had been left there.

I've realised too that my comment about clutter in the bedroom has mislead a lot of people, and I think others are correct, I have been too influenced by DH in calling myself a hoarder and saying I have clutter in the bedroom. It's not clutter, it's just more stuff than he has on his side (which is nothing) and something I'm very aware is more than he's comfortable with. I'm not posting a photo. But what I have out on my side of the bedroom outside wardrobes are some of the clothes I've been wearing the last 2-3 days (about six items), skin cream, five bits of paper, five reading books, four pairs of shoes. Every few days I'll clear that to nothing and take the bits of paper to the study. All the actual clutter I have is in the study.

Admittedly they don't see the study, but most people can hardly believe how tidy our house is considering the children.

I did find a clutter chart as someone suggested:

hoardingdisordersuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/clutter-image-ratings.pdf

Number 1 in each case is way more cluttered than any room in our house apart from the study. It's hard to put a figure on the study because the chart doesn't have offices, but it's maybe something like this picture here:

commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Master_Mechanics_Office.jpg

Which is admittedly messy. But it's nowhere near floor to ceiling.

I should also say, I lived here first, it used to be messy throughout and over time it's become tidier and tidier. I've probably thrown out 90%+ of my possessions, not just junk but things that meant something to me that he saw as junk. Previously he would bring up "we need to throw this", and for lots of things I resisted initially but he wore me down.

Now I have one room where I have everything that's left. It's also where I work. I do need to tidy it. The room is far messier because none of the stuff can be safely kept anywhere else in the house.

So the slow creep is not out of the study into the rest of the house, the slow creep is the creep of extreme minimalism spreading towards me. The study used to be my space but he's increasingly seeing it as the next thing to 'sort', and there's no acknowledgement whatsoever for the sacrificies I've made up to now.

To clarify, the item that had a rip in it was not a sock, but a piece of art that I had bought on holidays years ago, it was fine even with a rip and didn't need to be thrown out. The socks were separate and not in any way broken or unwearable, I assume he just didn't like those ones in particular. Clothes with holes I will throw out myself, and receipts I'm not keeping. In the past he has got rid of kitchen utensils because we weren't using them enough, a coffee table, I haven't been able to take a really lovely piece of furniture I loved after a relative passed away. Alos for many of the things he has thrown away he will deny having done it at all, or just say he can't remember etc and gets annoyed that I'm asking about them and 'starting an argument'.

If I put a lock on the study he would become very suspicious of me that I'm doing something bad behind his back. I don't think he'd be able to handle it.

Just to be clear there's no physical abuse or threats of.

That aside, I am afraid of him yes. I'm not sure what exactly I'm afraid of. I take on board everything you've said above about his behaviour, appreciating that you have only me as an unreliable narrator. But I'm not dismissing the advice, contrary to the impression I might have given higher up, I'm thinking on it and I appreciatate it.

He sound like a mental pain in the arse and I’d actually leave him.

I'm so glad you've updated @fa556 I've been thinking about you all day, hoping you're ok. You've a lot to think about. I personally don't think you should continue with your marriage to him. He's way too controlling, and you've said yourself, you're afraid of him. That's more than enough reason to end the marriage. But obviously, it's your decision to make.

Your update tells me three things.

One that he has serious OCD and needs help with that, but will resist and deny he has a problem. You are the problem, the kids are the problem, everyone else is the problem. He is fine.

Two that this comes out as abuse of you and your rights and preferences in your own home, to the point that you are afraid of him. You previous comments about him refusing to discuss or compromise, and about you backing down being the only way to stop him are dead giveaways that this is abuse. It doesnt matter WHY he is abusive, all that matters to you and the kids is that he is.

Three. He is not someone who should be a daily influence in your childrens lives. He will either turn them into himself....with OCD, or you....living with fear, or they will turn into normal teenagers who will leave shit on the floor, hoard mugs in their rooms, drop coats and bags as they walk through the door etc and he will epically lose it at them. Whichever one, it aint good is it?

There is no other way on this marriage than OUT, especially for your children.

Much love x

I am so sorry reading your update, it really does confirm he is controlling and abusive. It may be fuelled by OCD but it is not acceptable.

It is awful that you have to hide your things in your study. Do you have friends and family that can support you?

I hope some posters can now see the red flags that others were seeing. You should not be afraid in your own home. It should be your safe place.

Apologies, OP, for projecting all my own living-with-a-hoarder issues onto your situation. It does sound like he has a real problem.