I don’t want my mum to tag along to every holiday

[Birdsongjacky]

My dad is now in a care home, my mum has got a difficult personality (narcissistic/BPD/manipulative - not sure but you get the idea!) and has always had a major obsession with holidays and always been jealous of people on holiday. Since my dad can no longer go away and is only really with us in mind now, she has turned largely to me to take her on holiday with us (I am married with young children). The problem is, the 2 occasions we have taken her have essentially ruined it for me because I am a massive people pleaser and I find it is just another dependent human being who I have to factor in to plans. She doesn’t have the same ideas or priorities as me (my focus is on my children) she’s really demanding about being busy during the day and not returning to the accommodation for a chill or spending the day on the beach when we would prefer the pool etc. the most recent time I wanted to call time on a day out because we were soaked through, the kids were tired and grumpy, and she basically fell out with me for not giving her a full day experience.

any destination I mention she has started saying “can I come?” Which is also really awkward. To make matters worse when she is with us she is very dependent, she doesn’t eg prepare the evening meal, or bring a packed lunch, she sits there expectantly, and it really winds me up.

essentially, I don’t mind incorporating her in to some (shorter) trips, but want to preserve perhaps bigger family holidays to my little family unit, but am just overwhelmed with guilt and fear of telling her we want to go alone.

anyone had something similar?

I was widowed at 59, and had my first holiday alone with a solo tour with Rivera travel. I know your Mum isn't widowed, some of the people on these single tours are - but many were just single people whose partners didn't want to travel.

There is also a company called Just You, several widows I know have travelled with them.

Both companies cater for solo travellers and the hotels they use do not charge excessive single supplements.

If you help your Mum book taxis to the airport etc, do you think she might go away alone? I also recommend Caldeonian Travel, I went to the IOW to see my aunt on the coach for £289, all in - I've previously paid over £1K for taxi to the airport, flights, buses, ferry and Airbnb.

You need to keep your plans quiet & prepare some stock phrases, for example:
No we havent told you because its just us 4.
or You cant come this time we want just us & kids
or No, its not working, this is to make happy memories for the kids, your expectations are not the same
or No, you cannot come on every single one of our holidays
or Did you always take your parents on holiday? No.
or Unfortunately you want the holiday to be about you, I don’t

OP this is a perfect response, you could add, "but we're going to The Lakes for a few days later in the year if you would like to join us" wishing you the best of luck 💐

I get it OP. My mother is like this. Through a lot of therapy i have learned that i can say no to her visits etc, that i don't have to tell her everything. Guilt and fear are now bearable. Life is so much nicer. Use this as a spur to get yourself some therapy.

Thank you, I have had some therapy and agree with one of the pp that it was the best money I ever spent, I think clearly I need to go back for more though! 😂

I do think some people on here are being horrible but I still think the best idea is just not to tell her until it would be too late for her to book. I like the idea of saying it was a last minute deal limited to 2 adults 2 children.

Telling her the truth that she's a frigging nightmare who you never want to go on holiday with again sounds the ideal response but I completely understand why you would struggle to do that.

Having a difficult relationship with your mother is difficult. It’s easy for random strangers on the internet to say “no is a complete sentence” when they have no reality of your lived experience.

However on this one you really are going to have to set boundaries and take the rough times as your mother rallies against that.

You are entitled and deserve holidays with your family unit. You are not responsible for ensuring your mother has a social life or friendships/holiday companions with your father’s situation. If you are able to I would encourage her to look for social activities (not just holiday parties), so that she can begin to build her own network.

You are not a terrible wife, mother or daughter. Don’t let anyone tell you or make you feel that way.

@Birdsongjacky you haven’t exposed your children to abuse. People are dramatic. Your kids will grow up and have to deal with people from all walks of life, if they can’t handle an overbearing granny then god help them. It’s not like she is physically or emotionally abusing your kids. Of course you wouldn’t allow that. I feel sorry for you, absolute pile on like you are putting your kids through hell for having to share a holiday with your mother.

My MIL is like this and my DH has spoken to her about it but she still insists on coming and asks what we have planned. He’s now decided he isn’t telling her our plans, or he tells her the day before knowing she won’t be able to make arrangements. It’s shit but some people don’t listen no matter what. Just don’t tell her and make firm boundaries. If she strops then so be it. ‘It’s a holiday for me, DH and the kids chilling by the pool’ if she asks why you didn’t tell her.

Does she live nearby? If not, would she know if you were away?

If she is nearby then I'd frame it that my husband had booked us a trip as a surprise. I wouldn't tell her until the day before. I'd downplay where I went to - "Basically, Mum, we were in a hotel that was just for young families - it was all ball ponds and paddling pools - there was nothing else to do" so that she doesn't think she's missing out on much.

There are tons of trips for single people, though. I know you say she wouldn't like it but I think that should be her only option.

The thing is I get the guilt. Been there had the narcissistic mother. But this is basing your judgement on emotional reasoning. In other words because you feel guilty (because your mother has trained you that every time you put your needs above hers, you are being selfish/unkind/unappreciatiative etc,) you believe that must be a fact that you've done something bad. Whereas really you have every right to consider your DC, DH or heck even yourself over your mother at times.

She is an adult and can go on group holidays, with friends, on her own or do without. THIS ISN'T YOUR PROBLEM TO FIX.

I don't mean to be harsh or dismiss how difficult this is early on. But try to start with the idea that you are not responsible for her and if you feel guilty it doesn't mean you've done something wrong.

OP can I ask why you talk about a holiday with your Mum in the first place? Why don’t you just get on with booking it then let her know a couple of weeks before you go? I don’t understand why you’d even mention it to her.

Are you causing your own problem here? It wouldn’t occur to me to involve my Mum in the decision process tbh.

The reason she won't go on singles holidays is probably because she knows she would have to fend for herself. If you can't avoid telling her about the holiday when she asks I would say sorry not this time don't get drawn into negotiations

I had the same thing with my mother. After my father died she came away with my husband and me everywhere we went. One year it was 10 times and many more during subsequent years. I got to the point where I just didn't want to go if she was coming. She has a very difficult personality and makes nasty jibes. The holidays then became all about her. They were no longer my husband's and mine. I eventually told her I did not want her coming anymore after we had a big argument in Wales, after I refused to drive through a really remote route in the mountains that would take 60 minutes as opposed to a 20 minute civilised drive through nice villages. She said maybe she shouldn't come anymore. So, I took her at her word. She has been awful but I ignore it. I told her how dare she dictate to me who I can or can't go on holiday with. She comes away once a year with us for a long weekend somewhere. The rest we go on our own or with my son or daughter and their families. Or, friends. So that is still one time more than anyone else takes her.
Stand your ground and do not take her. What is the point of a holiday if you spend it pleasing someone else all the time and not yourselves.

Does she live nearby? If not, would she know if you were away?

This line really highlights the difference between parents, and how some people on MN have yet to experience the delights of parents getting older and becoming increasingly reliant on help from adult children.

My elderly Dad calls me multiple times a day. He also relies on me and my sister for everything. He would know if I was away, because I wouldn't be available to take his calls/do his lottery/do his Asda shop, etc.

Op, how old is your Mum? I find it baffling that she wouldn't know how inappropriate this is, although as parents age they do seem to lose the plot entirely, or become very selfish.

OP look up FOG - fear, obligation, guilt

That might help you address the problems you have with your mum.

Perfect

My mum is not narcissistic and does come on some holidays but they limit us due to her mobility and age. I regularly remind her that at our age she was doing round the world cruises and we would like more active holidays which involves leaving her on her own. After a few times of her bitching about being left alone because she could not keep up with us I stopped asking her. If she asks to come I just say that the holiday won’t work for her and we compromise by doing a few days in the UK with some flat walking, nice hotel and not too much activity. Given your mum is narcissistic I would not take her anywhere. Just say that in the past she has not seemed to enjoy the holidays with you so better she doesn’t come.

Learn to say no and mean it. It's not fair on your children

Just don't tell her, say money has gotten tight and you can't afford holidays abroad anymore.
Take her on small local trips.

I feel so irritated by your mum’s behaviour. Try and be strong now otherwise you’ll get into a pattern that will be impossible to break. She clearly is very thick skinned so you need to be thick skinned back. It is time to change.
good luck.

I would suggest a long weekend together with her that is separate from what you do with the family. That way she gets a holiday break and you do not feel torn between your family and her and there's no need to feel guilty when you go away with your family.

OP, whatever you say she will not take it well. She will make you feel guilty, be passive aggressive and maybe not speak to you for a few days.

But you have to be brave. Speak to her with just your husband there. Sit together and have a united front.

You can word it kindly. But you can say that you just aren’t compatible on holidays and you really want to make sure your children have some lovely memories. There is no need to go into too much detail or give too many examples. There will be no point.

If you really want to, you could suggest a day trip or two.

But remember, whatever you do, she will not be happy. Because she’s programmed that way. Remember, each time you set some boundaries and try and maintain some distance, you will feel a little less guilty each time.

This is not going to be easy. But think of it as a skill, that you have to practise until it is second nature for you. It is an unfamiliar skill, and something you have not learned before. But it is never too late to start learning something new.

The future happiness of you and your family depends on it.

I think if you really believe she is a narcissist then it will help you detach and focus on yours and your own little families happiness first, is to know she probably doesn't care about you in the way a mother should.
It seems like your father probably enabled her behaviour and she's looking for another support human, you just happen to be the nearest and half trained one she can use and abuse.
There's something missing in these types of people, they fake love and sincerity to manipulate the ones around them.
She's not really a mother, she's the human that birthed you and she will always always put herself first, above you and her grandchildren.

She doesn't care so why should you?

My mum would never have asked to tag along. Neither do I. In fact, we took her every year, our choice. I now holiday once a year with my daughter, SIL and grandchildren. Their choice. If they all bugger off on a second holiday, or want to do something different, fair play. Give the kids some spending money and my blessing.

Whoa there, I know it’s hard but sometimes us daughters who have been groomed to put up with abuse do need a bit of straight talking.

peiple who haven’t had a lifetime of this don’t know that we daren’t say no, we’ve been conditioned to put their needs first.

also some of us who can’t stick up for ourselves can do it for our children so it is good advice.

the really simple answer is you don’t tell her or you say no when she asks that’s all there is to it. But you don’t want to do that because you will feel awful and you want to escape that feeling. But feelings don’t kill you. Your husband needs to get on board and support you in saying no.