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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Nigel Farage on abortions- slippery slope?

571 replies

Ph2028 · 28/05/2025 01:13

Following the speech, Farage was also asked about his view on abortion limits. He replied that he was pro-choice but that it was "utterly ludicrous" for abortion to be allowed up to 24 weeks, when a hospital would "move heaven and earth" to help a baby born at 22 weeks survive.

Aibu to think it may be a slippery slope to reducing the number of weeks until it is effectively banned...

Anyway it's a bit of a non issue on Nigel's part given nearly 94% of reported abortions happen before two and a half months of pregnancy.so very few abortions happen at 24 weeks.

Now i remember why I requested a tubal ligation when I was pregnant with first baby as I didn't want anymore in any circumstances. It was predictably denied so dh got a vasectomy instead.

OP posts:
Cherrytree86 · 28/05/2025 18:06

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 18:02

Then we’ll have to agree to disagree. It sounds awful, immature, spoilt and selfish.

@OutandAboutMum1821

whats spoilt and selfish about ending a pregnancy when you don’t want a baby? It’s her own body she can do as she wish.

are women only worthy in your book if they are Martyrs who will sacrifice their own health and happiness for others?

LastPostISwear · 28/05/2025 18:07

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 18:05

So exercise more ‘bodily autonomy’ with your partner to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place then 🤦🏻‍♀️ It’s free, available in multiple forms for both sexes and not frowned upon anymore.

Why should an already over-stretched NHS keep dealing with abortions which absolutely could be avoided if people were more responsible?

Would you rather that the overstretched systems responsible for providing for children in poverty or who were put up for adoptions deal with the unplanned/unwanted children born? And that the overstretched NHS handle the birth mothers’ pre and post natal care?

Digdongdoo · 28/05/2025 18:12

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 18:02

Then we’ll have to agree to disagree. It sounds awful, immature, spoilt and selfish.

The only selfish thing is demanding other women have babies because it makes you feel better. You do what you want and mind your own business.

LittleBitofBread · 28/05/2025 18:15

ExtraOnions · 28/05/2025 06:18

The Right Wing love nothing more than to control Female bodily autonomy.

There is a brain dead woman being kept “alive” in the States as she was 9 weeks pregnant when she died. The baby already has hydrocephalus, and is unlikely to survive, if they do, they will be severely disabled. The relatives want the machines switching off, but, right-wing “Christians” who think that a woman’s only role is producing children, have enacted laws so stringent, that no Dr dares do it.

It is up to women to decide what happens to our bodies, we shouldn’t lose that right when we become pregnant.

Absolutely this. It is a slippery slope precisely because it's Nigel Farage, and we will know what his long-term agenda is and who his contacts and friends are.

Digdongdoo · 28/05/2025 18:18

And actually, women are allowed to be as selfish as we like with our own fucking bodies!

CurlewKate · 28/05/2025 18:24

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 18:06

And plenty don’t. People openly celebrate their lack of planning, care and responsibility. Awful.

They don’t “celebrate” ffs. God, I hope you’re not really a Samaritan!

TheSwarm · 28/05/2025 18:28

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 18:05

So exercise more ‘bodily autonomy’ with your partner to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place then 🤦🏻‍♀️ It’s free, available in multiple forms for both sexes and not frowned upon anymore.

Why should an already over-stretched NHS keep dealing with abortions which absolutely could be avoided if people were more responsible?

How much resource do you think the NHS spends on actual living people, compared to providing an abortion?

Let me get you started. On average, according to the ONS, every one of us costs the NHS £4188 per year. Now, multiply that by the average lifespan of a person and compare that to the cost of an abortion.

Tiredofwhataboutery · 28/05/2025 18:29

LastPostISwear · 28/05/2025 18:07

Would you rather that the overstretched systems responsible for providing for children in poverty or who were put up for adoptions deal with the unplanned/unwanted children born? And that the overstretched NHS handle the birth mothers’ pre and post natal care?

I rather suspect the 100 million annual spend on abortion care will be a drop in the ocean when it come to supporting all those children.

PlutoCat · 28/05/2025 18:34

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 17:55

Lily Allen: ‘Most people I know, including myself, just didn’t want to have a f*ing baby’.

Sounds awful! Grow up! Do more to stop getting pregnant in the first place then. Take some responsibility, but no, we like rights these days more than taking any personal responsibility. And swearing to make your point lowers it even further in my opinion.

Celebrities are broadcasting these views to millions of impressionable young girls. If politicians should stay out of it, then so should privileged celebrities!

"I wish people would stop posting examples of exceptional reasons for having abortions," she wrote. "Most people i know, myself included, just didn't want to have a f baby. AND THAT IS REASON ENOUGH! WE DON'T HAVE TO JUSTIFY IT."

What is wrong with that? It is sending the right message to young women: that they and they alone are in charge of their bodies.

I still haven't seen you come up with an example of celebrities "boasting " about having abortions.

LastPostISwear · 28/05/2025 18:37

Tiredofwhataboutery · 28/05/2025 18:29

I rather suspect the 100 million annual spend on abortion care will be a drop in the ocean when it come to supporting all those children.

😂 yeah, okay. Clearly you have no idea how much children cost, nor pre and post natal care.

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 18:40

LastPostISwear · 28/05/2025 18:07

Would you rather that the overstretched systems responsible for providing for children in poverty or who were put up for adoptions deal with the unplanned/unwanted children born? And that the overstretched NHS handle the birth mothers’ pre and post natal care?

For the hundredth time- stop getting pregnant in the first place! Avoids all of this hassle. We live in one of the easiest countries where that’s possible.

SprinkleTheCat · 28/05/2025 18:42

I actually agree and think 24 weeks for non medical reasons is far too late.. This is a fully formed baby not a cluster of cells.
However in terms of abnormalities, incompatible with life etc women should be able to (and can) have an abortion up to term.
The 24 week limit is for any and all abortions not just medical ones.. Also I would be worried about people aborting because they don't like the gender.
However if so few women are having abortions at 24 weeks anyway according to the thread why is it a problem to lower it?

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 18:44

PlutoCat · 28/05/2025 18:34

"I wish people would stop posting examples of exceptional reasons for having abortions," she wrote. "Most people i know, myself included, just didn't want to have a f baby. AND THAT IS REASON ENOUGH! WE DON'T HAVE TO JUSTIFY IT."

What is wrong with that? It is sending the right message to young women: that they and they alone are in charge of their bodies.

I still haven't seen you come up with an example of celebrities "boasting " about having abortions.

Well Lily Allen’s boastful, sweary rant definitely qualifies in my opinion. You are free to interpret things differently, I’m don’t expect others to agree with my every opinion, I’m not a child.

She should try showing a bit of tact and diplomacy to all the women out there who can’t have children/have lost babies/can’t afford IVF/have suffered unwanted abortions. Beyond insensitive and massively entitled to sound so dismissive.

Cherrytree86 · 28/05/2025 18:46

@OutandAboutMum1821

you do realise that some women who have unwanted pregnancies will have taken every single precaution available to them? But that contraception failures can still happen? There is no infallible method of birth control. So this is one of the key reasons why abortion exists - yay! 🥳

Cherrytree86 · 28/05/2025 18:47

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 18:44

Well Lily Allen’s boastful, sweary rant definitely qualifies in my opinion. You are free to interpret things differently, I’m don’t expect others to agree with my every opinion, I’m not a child.

She should try showing a bit of tact and diplomacy to all the women out there who can’t have children/have lost babies/can’t afford IVF/have suffered unwanted abortions. Beyond insensitive and massively entitled to sound so dismissive.

@OutandAboutMum1821

can you explain how what Lily Allen said is boastful and/or entitled?

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 18:49

Cherrytree86 · 28/05/2025 18:47

@OutandAboutMum1821

can you explain how what Lily Allen said is boastful and/or entitled?

Referring to a baby generally as a ‘f*ing baby’- horrible and unnecessary.

Only thinking about her own ‘wants’, but then celebrities tend to be self-absorbed.

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 18:51

Cherrytree86 · 28/05/2025 18:46

@OutandAboutMum1821

you do realise that some women who have unwanted pregnancies will have taken every single precaution available to them? But that contraception failures can still happen? There is no infallible method of birth control. So this is one of the key reasons why abortion exists - yay! 🥳

Edited

Of course. So you disagree that we shouldn’t all strive to try our best to at least have a starting point of trying to avoid unnecessary pregnancies by using multiple forms of contraception? Surely it’s better for everybody to try our best at least? Not least of all women. That’s hardly controversial, surely?

MyUmberSeal · 28/05/2025 18:53

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 18:49

Referring to a baby generally as a ‘f*ing baby’- horrible and unnecessary.

Only thinking about her own ‘wants’, but then celebrities tend to be self-absorbed.

I was wholeheartedly thinking about my own wants when I aborted. I guess I’m self absorbed too. Oh well, I can live with that, and guess what …I aborted because I didn’t want a fucking baby. Simple as.

Glowingup · 28/05/2025 18:55

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 18:44

Well Lily Allen’s boastful, sweary rant definitely qualifies in my opinion. You are free to interpret things differently, I’m don’t expect others to agree with my every opinion, I’m not a child.

She should try showing a bit of tact and diplomacy to all the women out there who can’t have children/have lost babies/can’t afford IVF/have suffered unwanted abortions. Beyond insensitive and massively entitled to sound so dismissive.

She has been through a stillbirth actually. It was very widely publicised at the time. Her baby died at six months which is horrific and she had another miscarriage after that. Yet she still believes in women having bodily autonomy and reproductive choices. Why don’t you grow the fuck up and have some compassion like Lily obviously does. Rather than sniping at irresponsible women and glorifying teen pregnancies.

Digdongdoo · 28/05/2025 18:56

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 18:49

Referring to a baby generally as a ‘f*ing baby’- horrible and unnecessary.

Only thinking about her own ‘wants’, but then celebrities tend to be self-absorbed.

So you think someone who speaks so horribly (in your opinion) about a baby, should be forced to have a baby? Who exactly benefits from that?

TheSwarm · 28/05/2025 18:56

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 18:49

Referring to a baby generally as a ‘f*ing baby’- horrible and unnecessary.

Only thinking about her own ‘wants’, but then celebrities tend to be self-absorbed.

If you don't want a baby, or if you are unable to properly care for a baby abortion is the exact opposite of self-absorbed and selfish. It's the grown-up way to deal with it.

Most people have children for entirely selfish reasons. The word doesn't need more babies, so why are people still having them, if not because they want to have them?

Cherrytree86 · 28/05/2025 18:57

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 18:49

Referring to a baby generally as a ‘f*ing baby’- horrible and unnecessary.

Only thinking about her own ‘wants’, but then celebrities tend to be self-absorbed.

@OutandAboutMum1821

so you think she should have been forced to have it then?

and if you can’t be selfish about your own BODY…well, there’s something drastically wrong. We are all entitled to bodily autonomy. You, me, celebs, everyone.

KidsDr · 28/05/2025 19:00

B1rthdayD1lemna · 28/05/2025 16:41

@KidsDr

Thank you, this is really helpful to understand from a medical perspective. So would Drs only try aggressive interventions at 22-24 weeks if the parents are onboard? If the child would likely have severe disabilities would Drs not intervene if the parents aren’t onboard, or is there pressure on Drs to keep going with treatment?

It's quite hard to summarise this in just one post but I will try. I'm not a consultant either just a registrar so for very tricky ethical dilemmas / differences of opinion between medical team and parents a consultant would always be involved and leading the discussions. Which means some gaps in my experience / reference points possibly. I don't have decades of experience either, only a couple of years in tertiary neonatal settings.

There are factors other than gestation which are really important, particularly at extremely premature gestations: size/weight, whether there has been time to give antenatal steroids, whether the mother/baby are sick (for example from womb infection), sex of the baby, multiple pregnancy, other complicating factors (the baby has had inadequate fluid for lung development, the baby has another congenital illness/syndrome etc). These factors cumulatively affect the chances of the baby. Location of birth is also very important but often, if the location is not optimised then there hasn't been time to discuss options so an assumption will be made to resuscitate if the baby has signs of life.

The condition of the baby itself at birth is perhaps the most important thing for extremely premature babies, which isn't always possible to predict. The discussion with parents tries to cover all of the options & might reach a conclusion eg we will resuscitate if baby has a good breathing effort and colour at birth, but if baby is floppy, grey and not crying we will let them pass away peacefully. Parents are very involved in these decisions, though sometimes they want us to make the choice for them / guide their choice quite a lot. There's a balance to be struck. I don't want to lead anyone into a decision, but the choice can be an enormous burden & I do want to ease that burden and it's my job to provide the context/perspective that many parents naturally won't have.

Fundamentally yes - parents of (otherwise completely healthy / optimal) 22/23 weekers would usually be presented with all of the options, including the option to do nothing at birth. And that would be their choice. Ultimately the choice to do nothing could stretch all the way up to term depending on the individual factors of the baby if those factors mean there isn't a good chance of survival or the baby will need very aggressive resuscitation.

As a rule it's not generally considered appropriate to do chest compressions and certainly not to give resuscitation drugs for extremely premature babies (22/23/24/25 & potentially up to 28 depending on adversity of factors) born without respiratory effort who then go into or remain in cardiac arrest despite appropriate airway/breathing measures. I would frame this as the baby being unable to survive the stress of birth. Parents aren't really given a choice about what medical interventions are considered futile.

Generally, your specific question doesn't come up because in my experience parents are always on board if doctors advise that intervention is the right thing to do. I'm trying to imagine - I think if a baby born at 24 weeks with good factors was vigorous and breathing spontaneously then we would support them, even if parents had expressed they didn't want this - I've never come across this situation though or heard of it. 22/23 babies are generally much less vigorous / breathe less and therefore keeping them alive is immediately more invasive from just minutes after birth, combined with worse outcomes it's a reasonable option to decline all of that. But I find that parents rarely do.

Generally, parents want to intervene, perhaps too much but they are the ones who have to live with consequences and the feelings, not me. I think parents find the "what if" (my baby could have survived) too difficult I think. It's easier to live with, we tried, it didn't work and then we let go.

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 19:01

Cherrytree86 · 28/05/2025 18:57

@OutandAboutMum1821

so you think she should have been forced to have it then?

and if you can’t be selfish about your own BODY…well, there’s something drastically wrong. We are all entitled to bodily autonomy. You, me, celebs, everyone.

It’s about showing tact and diplomacy, you know, sensitivity to others?

I.e. I didn’t keep banging on about my pregnancies and waving scan photos in my friend’s face who was going through a 6 year IVF battle. I wouldn’t have banged on about abortions either, she was really struggling.

It is sometimes better to go about what you are doing a bit more quietly and being a bit mindful of who you are talking to and what they might have experienced.

Cherrytree86 · 28/05/2025 19:05

OutandAboutMum1821 · 28/05/2025 19:01

It’s about showing tact and diplomacy, you know, sensitivity to others?

I.e. I didn’t keep banging on about my pregnancies and waving scan photos in my friend’s face who was going through a 6 year IVF battle. I wouldn’t have banged on about abortions either, she was really struggling.

It is sometimes better to go about what you are doing a bit more quietly and being a bit mindful of who you are talking to and what they might have experienced.

Edited

@OutandAboutMum1821

as another poster points out, Lily Allen has herself suffered still birth and miscarriage yet she can still muster the empathy for those who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy who don’t want a baby. What a woman! ❤️